I have to side with Bob on this one.
If the potential to cheat is that great, are we going to remove every rule?
Can't enforce QRO: so do we eliminate LP, QRP?
Can't enforce MO: so do we eliminate all single-op categories?
Can't enforce the 500-foot rule: so do we eliminate that, too?
The only way to guarantee no cheating on unenforceable rules is to eliminate
all unenforceable rules. So everybody would have to operate high power, have
assistance available, have ops to switch out when tired and use as much real
estate as possible to have a chance.
No, thanks.
If some piece of scum can't cheat on assistance, he'll just find some other way
to cheat. Read the fable about the fox and the scorpion. The cheaters are the
scorpion.
73, Kelly
ve4xt
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 29, 2013, at 8:18, "Bob Naumann" <W5OV@W5OV.COM> wrote:
> Rick,
>
> While I can appreciate the time you've put into your analysis, I have to sum
> it up as follows:
>
> - Because we cannot trust anyone to be honest, we all have to surrender to
> those few who cheat and give up on the traditional un-assisted single
> operator category.
>
> Is this really what we want? Are we all really that dishonest?
>
> Some opinionated comments below: **
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> I guess I'm in the minority, but I'd like to voice my support for Randy
> K5ZD's suggestion to merge assisted and non-assisted.
>
> My reasoning:
>
> 1. Assistance works in both directions: When you're running and someone
> spots you, you're receiving the benefit of assistance even though you may
> not be connected to a cluster yourself. Since the bulk of QSOs tend to come
> from running rather than S&P, I suspect this is one of the main reasons why
> unassisted scores are still higher than assisted.
>
> ** Not really - unassisted scores are higher because the challenge draws the
> best talent. I also don't buy into premise of the non-assisted person being
> assisted because those who are assisted call him. Assistance does not work
> both directions. It is one-way only.
>
> 2. You may want to compete against other unassisted stations, but you can't
> know for sure whether they're not assisted or just saying they aren't.
>
> ** See my summary above.
>
> 3. The rules that make someone be "assisted" are fairly arbitrary and hard
> or impossible to enforce. If I left my PC upstairs connected to a cluster,
> but never referenced the data during the contest, am I assisted? What if I
> accidentally left my logger connected to a cluster for the first few minutes
> or hours of a contest, and glanced at but didn't seriously use the data?
> What if I was connected to cluster, but only worked the contest for a few
> hours and spent the entire time running?
>
> ** Which contest has a rule about assistance that is "fairly arbitrary"? I
> would like to see one.
>
> ** Unless you use the information from the cluster/network/skimmer you are
> not assisted - by definition. Is there any contest rule that would cause one
> to conclude that any of these non-use of assistance scenarios as you
> describe would be considered assistance and therefore would be cheating?
>
> ** Enforce-ability is a "red herring" in discussions like this. There are
> many rules that cannot be enforced in the traditional sense of finding
> evidence which leads to a specific penalty. QRO is another clearly
> "unenforceable" rule in that sense.
>
> What if I'm connected to a local Skimmer, but I'm only using the data to
> determine propagation?
>
> ** Since in this scenario, you admit to "using" the information, you would
> be assisted. This is the key - are you going to be honest about it?
>
> I have my own opinion, but what if the Contest Committee investigates and
> disagrees?
>
> ** If the entrant says he didn't use assistance, they have to go by that. If
> they find evidence otherwise, he's going to be disqualified.
>
> 4. It's one less thing the Contest Committee would need to investigate and
> enforce.
>
> ** Again, see my summary above.
> ** The other thing is that many people "imagine" that it must be impossible
> to detect packet usage. Well, it is not impossible. Cheaters do and are
> getting caught.
> ** While it is reasonable to presume that someone could cheat very minimally
> and get away with it - say, by working one packet spot multiplier per hour
> during the entire contest (48 cheated mults!) we have to consider: is this
> possibility sufficient reason to change the landscape of contesting in this
> way?... because of a few low-life cheaters? Is that what we really want?
>
> If the consensus is to retain the differentiation of assisted vs.
> non-assisted, then perhaps non-assisted stations should be required to
> register beforehand, so that clusters won't forward spots for their calls
> during the contest. Then they would be truly unassisted. Silly, right?
>
> ** It is silly, but only because someone could "register" and then go ahead
> and cheat anyway.
>
> Exactly.
>
> ** Well, not really.
>
> 73,
>
> Bob W5OV
>
>
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