We just did a kitchen remodel here that replaced our ceiling lights with new
Lithonia wafer-thin LED lighting with external SMPS boxes that created strong
RF noise strongest on 30 meters. I didn't like the way they were physically
installed (made replacement messing and difficult) so rather than adding
ferrites I had them removed and replaced with standard recessed cans for
standard flood lights (LED or incan.) with plenty of room for adding ferrite
filters latter myself if needed.
I could not talk the contractor's electrician into installing or inserting my
pre-wired ferrites while he was installing them because they were "not UL
listed" devices but home-brewed instead. Perhaps Brad's neighbor has run into
the same problem if he tried hiring an electrician to add ferrites? Perhaps
the electrician told him they weren't safe to use? It could be something like
this that made the neighbor change his mind.
I have one question related to Mike Martin's comment what is legal to
manufacture and what is not. My understanding is it's a Part 15 violation if
it causes harmful interference, but not necessarily a violation if it has a
poor design without what we consider proper filtering. Am I incorrect?
I know there are RF noise level limits that are set by the FCC (probably in
Part 15 and other regs), but devices that are able to meet those levels can
still cause harmful interference especially in the HF bands with higher allowed
limits. The reason for higher HF limits is probably similar to the old TVI
problems back in the pre-cable TV era. TV manufacturers were not required to
added high pass filters to all TVs was because not every TV set would be
located near a ham radio station.
FCC didn't want to force TV makers to all spend possibly millions of dollars on
millions of TV sets to resolve a small number of problems that are not
happening in every TV set location. However, if the ham did cause TVI back
then, FCC forced quiet RF hours until the TVI was resolved by adding the high
pass filters to TV set and low pass filter to the ham station.
With TVI fading into history, now the RFI is in the other direction. But the
FCC lawyers probably see it the same way: why force the costs of additional RF
filters on all lights that probably meet Part 15 limits without filters and
when 99.999% of them are not located near a radio station receiver?
In this case we need Part 15 enforcement today just like we had in the TVI
days: RF quiet periods until filters are added! Unfortunately, the FCC
lawyers today don't respond the same for hams as it did for TV viewers probably
because of the lower numbers of hams or the lower financial impact.
73, de ed -K0iL
-----Original Message-----
From: RFI <rfi-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Michael Martin
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2019 07:59
To: n8gls@arrl.net
Cc: rfi@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] FCC Complaint Filing
Importance: High
Hello Brad,
Well it sounds like you've proven the cause. One of the things I like to do
when approaching the owner of the offending source, is to have a radio in my
hand that will display the noise. In your case I would approach the door with a
clear radio station, maybe FM, and at a very low levels and as I'm talkin turn
the volume up just slightly so they can hear the clear radio station. Then say
this is a really clear station but let me show you this and hopefully through a
memory channel in the radio or just tune to the am frequency where the noise is
being displayed and say quote this is the noise I get on my equipment well your
lights are on and then turn it up slightly so he can hear it so they get a
better example as to what you're dealing with sometimes it's very convincing
actually most of the time it's very convincing. Saying that all I'm interested
in is being able to use my equipment without interference. It's unfortunate
that he has the originator and source of the interference an
d you understand it isn't his fault that he has that but the manufacturer that
built it build it without filtering and that is a violation of FCC rules and
regulations and you're willing to help him install those filters to get rid of
it that they should have installed.
I'd still like to know what area you are in?
Best wishes
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