RFI
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [RFI] RFI Susceptibility of DTV?

Subject: Re: [RFI] RFI Susceptibility of DTV?
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri@rogerhalstead.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:24:51 -0500
List-post: <rfi@contesting.com">mailto:rfi@contesting.com>

Jim Brown wrote:
> Can anyone point me to engineering references that discuss the 
> relative susceptibility to RFI of DTV as compared to analog TV? That 
> is, is DTV more or less susceptible to interference, or about the 
> same? Yes, I would certainly expect "the cliff effect." I'm 
> specifically interested in RFI from hams.  
>   

Relating what I've seen over the past few years from one location.  I've 
included all of the set up as each installation/location is going to be 
different.

I have a Samsung 40", 1080i capable LCD set that is about 2 1/2 years 
old.  I run the legal limit on 160-10 and about 800 SSB and CW on six 
meters.  The TV antennas are located between 90 (Pointed S) and 95' 
(Pointed NW) on the tower (Both with preamps mounted at the antennas) I 
also have a DISH Network dish at 20' on the tower (to see over my 
neighbors willow tree which STILL seems to be growing.  There are 
sloping dipoles for 75 and 40 anchored to the top of the tower with poly 
rope putting the ends of the antennas just below the TV antennas. There  
is also a half sloper on 160 with the feed pint within about 3-4' of the 
TV antennas.  The tribander is located at 100, a 7L C3i 6-meter yagi at 
115, and a 14' cross boom at 130 holding a stacked pair of vertically 
polarized 12's on 144 and 11's on 440. I can run up to a KW on 144, but 
typically run between 50 and 160 watts all modes, including digital.  
There are also side mounted Diamond duo-band antennas with the tops 
about10' below the TV antennas. There is also a HyGain AV640 on a 40' 
tower at the W end of my shop with crossed dipoles (TV) about 6' below 
the antenna. On the N side of the shop is another Diamond dual band 
vertical at 20' to the base and that one is about 20-30' NE of the 
AV640.  I run a KW SSB and CW on this system as well along with 800 PEP 
on 6.  Yes, I know that is well beyond the AV640's ratings for 6, but 
they tell me it should handle it on SSB. 

The TV stations are pretty much evenly distributed between low and high 
VHF and UHF. They are all moving around but the distribution will stay 
pretty much the same as it has over the last 5 years. IIRC (too lazy to 
look it up again) but there will be 40 some channel two stations left 
across the nation.  So in general things are going to stay pretty much 
the same with the distribution, but with many changes in any locality.  
IOW the chart looks like they are playing musical channels.  There are 
no channel 2 stations in the area, but one will be deep fringe which the 
big antennas at 90' will pick up. I've not had a chance to try that one 
for interference susceptibility on this system nor have I actually 
pointed the one antenna at it and probably won't.  As to the crossed 
dipoles under the AV640 I've never tried channel 2, 3 or 4 on that one 
as there are none in range. The lowest reachable is channel 5 and there 
I have absolutely no interference, nor have I seen any between 144 and 
channel 12. On analog I did have some interference between the stacked 
12's and the TV antenna pointed S when the stacked 12's were also 
aligned with the TV antenna.  So far, there's been nothing with Digital.

I also need to clarify the so called cliff effect.  It really isn't a 
cliff, but rather a very steep hill, or slope.  It's a myth that you get 
or don't get a station with nothing in between.  Compared to analog 
which slowly gets weaker and weaker with a poorer and poorer image, 
digital is picture perfect up to a point.  Then it may start by 
pixilating and/or freeze intermittently, they sound may start breaking 
up, or going out of sync with the image, but you definitely still can 
watch until it gets really bad.  It's just between starting to notice a 
bit of pixelation and going out is a very narrow range so I can see why 
some call it a cliff.  There is also a lot of processing going on in the 
TV set which may make up for a lost pixel here and there.

With all those qualifying statements and all things remaining equal, I 
have seen DTV as less susceptible to noticeable interference than 
analog.  BUT this is basically one location with two transmitters  and 
two TV antenna installations.  I've been watching Off the Air (OTA) HD 
TV as well as standard definition (SD) digital before the local stations 
went to HD.  I am reliably watching HD stations out to 100 miles, or I 
should say my wife does while I operate without problems.  BUT with the 
satellite system (I did have two big C-band dishes set up), I rarely 
find anything of interest on the "networks" and watch the affiliates for 
the local news.

Actually I get most of my news and weather off the internet and have 
subscription RADAR along with aviation weather.
But again, I emphasize this is just one location and one family's 
experience from one location.

73

Roger (K8RI)
_______________________________________________
RFI mailing list
RFI@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>