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Re: [RFI] IR Illuminator for Security Cameras

To: RFI <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] IR Illuminator for Security Cameras
From: Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net>
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2022 08:23:49 -0800
List-post: <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
I have about 130 FEIT/Costco LED 4' T8 type in my shop/shack. No RFI problems 160 > 2m. Early FEIT LEDs btw show superb MTBF, >50k hrs. A variety of fixture ballasts left in. One of 8 3 bulb troffer ballasts emitted magic smoke after 5 yrs, need to rewire it direct to bulbs.

Grant KZ1W

On 1/31/2022 06:42, Jim McDonald wrote:
Any experience with 4' or 8' LED fluorescent tubes?   We're about to have 
conventional ones in our barn replaced with the LEDs.

We just replaced the exterior area light on the barn with an LED, and I don't 
hear any noise from it.

The Feit bulbs from Costco in our house don't seem to cause any noise.

Jim N7US


-----Original Message-----
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+jim=n7us.net@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Hare, Ed, W1RFI
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 08:09
To: Michael Tope <W4EF@dellroy.com>; David Eckhardt <davearea51a@gmail.com>
Cc: RFI <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] IR Illuminator for Security Cameras

We have measured a number of LED bulbs here in the ARRL Lab.  They range from 
essentially zero noise to way over the FCC limits.   The good news is that all 
of the ones we have tested *so far* that are being sold in the big box stores 
do meet the FCC emissions limits. The outliers are being sold elsewhere, 
including eBay.  One just sent to us for testing is 26 dB over the emissions 
limits. It is causing bad interference.  With an actual interference case and 
measurements well above the FCC limits, ARRL is going to file a formal 
complaint on this one.

Of note, meeting the FCC limits is not a guarantee at all of no interference.  
The limits below 30 MHz are for noise conducted onto the AC mains only.  There 
are no limits for radiated emissions below 30 MHz or limits on the amount of 
noise that can be put on the secondary of devices such as some kitchen lights 
that have a power supply and run wires to the actual LED bulbs.

Generally, the rules do prevent a lot of interference, and if there is 
interference from a neighbor's device, it is going to be close to you and 
easier to find.

To be marketed, several criteria apply.

* For LED bulbs and systems to be marketed to consumers, the design must be tested by the 
manufacturer to meet the FCC Part 15 Class B limits.  For fluourescent bulbs, they must 
meet Part 18 consumer limits.  Class A or non-consumer devices to do exist, bt they are 
supposed to be marketed only for use in commercial environments.  Lowe's and Home Depot 
sell "commercial" units openly, so be wary.

* They must be marketed with the FCC logo and the language described earlier on 
a label on the product or, if the product is small, in the documentation.

* These are the responsibility of the manufacturer and marketer. The end user 
of the product is responsible under FCC rules for using it in a way that does 
not cause harmful interference to licensed radio.

The latter point is really hard to communicate to neighbors, so be prepared to 
explain why a device they just bought at Home Depot is in violation of some 
federal law that they don't understand.

Ed Hare, W1RFI
ARRL Lab

-----Original Message-----
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Michael Tope
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2022 2:53 PM
To: David Eckhardt <davearea51a@gmail.com>
Cc: RFI <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] IR Illuminator for Security Cameras

Thank you, Dave. Yeah, I understand that this warning is somewhat perfunctory, 
but it was so prominently displayed in the manual and a friend was just 
complaining about RFI from LED lights. Those two things got me to wondering if 
these things (IR LED arrays) are a know problem child, or just one of the many 
things that can be a problem, but not always are a problem. This one takes +12V 
input, so I suppose the risk is low that the array itself is going to be an 
interference source. I assume the RFI problem with LED lights is actually the 
switchers that supply them rather the the semiconductors themselves and I can 
always use a cleaner external supply if the one that comes with this unit is 
junk.

73, Mike W4EF.........................

On 1/30/2022 11:03 AM, David Eckhardt wrote:
There is a standard FCC paragraph required for all Part 15, Class B
(Home and Small Office) products.  It's required by FCC.   No big thing.

Here is the required statement:

This equipment has been tested and found to comply with the limits for
a Class B digital device, pursuant to part 15 of the FCC Rules. These
limits are designed to provide reasonable protection against harmful
interference in a residential installation. This equipment generates,
uses and can radiate radio frequency energy and, if not installed and
used in accordance with the instructions, may cause harmful
interference to radio communications. However, there is no guarantee
that interference will not occur in a particular installation. If this
equipment does cause harmful interference to radio or television
reception, which can be determined by turning the equipment off and
on, the user is encouraged to try to correct the interference by one
or more of the following measures:

   * Reorient or relocate the receiving antenna.
   * Increase the separation between the equipment and receiver.
   * Connect the equipment into an outlet on a circuit different from
     that to which the receiver is connected.
   * Consult the dealer or an experienced radio/TV technician for help.


Dave - WØLEV

On Sun, Jan 30, 2022 at 6:56 PM Michael Tope <W4EF@dellroy.com> wrote:

     I have a couple of south facing security cameras that I  have tucked
     under the soffits of my high desert cabin so they don't get baked
     by the
     high desert sun. The tradeoff for this is that I am getting glare off
     the soffit from the camera's built-in IR LED arrays which spoils the
     night vision image quality. I am thinking of purchasing some
     external IR
     LED arrays to solve this problem.

     I found a positive review of this illuminator, but I got a little
     worried when I saw the FCC part 15 warning prominently displayed
     in the
     user manual:

https://www.amazon.com/CMVision-IRP12-850nm-WideAngle-Power-Illuminato
r/dp/B00Q156IPE/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1503002750&sr=8-1&keywords
=irp12-850&linkCode=sl1&tag=stf03-20&linkId=1ea87920d2d4d067e723c31001
82acbe
<https://www.amazon.com/CMVision-IRP12-850nm-WideAngle-Power-Illuminat
or/dp/B00Q156IPE/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&qid=1503002750&sr=8-1&keyword
s=irp12-850&linkCode=sl1&tag=stf03-20&linkId=1ea87920d2d4d067e723c3100
182acbe>

     I am not aware of any interference from the IR LED arrays that are
     built
     into the cameras, but just in case these illuminators are more
     problematic I thought I would run this by the reflector before I
     press
     the "add to cart" button.

     Thanks,

     Mike W4EF.................


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