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Re: Topband: Yet Another Radial Question

To: "Chortek, Robert L" <Robert.Chortek@berliner.com>,<Topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Yet Another Radial Question
From: "Tom Rauch" <w8ji@contesting.com>
Reply-to: Tom Rauch <w8ji@contesting.com>
Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:02:25 -0500
List-post: <mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Bob and all,

We can go on and on about this, sound like professionals, 
and even read or write long detailed articles. The fact of 
the matter is no one can answer any detailed questions 
unless someone is in an ideal controlled situation.

It's solidly established that 50-60 radials about 1/4 wl 
long gets our systems over 90 percent of every last bit of 
radiated power when we have a reasonably tall vertical, say 
1/8th wave or more. That's it, there is no more power to 
wring out of the system.

When the system deviates from a typical smooth flat area of 
pasture or meadow, if the radials are elevated, if they are 
limited in direction or length, or any of a half dozen other 
common problems all we really have is a guess. We can 
certainly describe how to get the last 3% efficiency in a 
perfect system....but factually the variation in soils and 
surroundings probably adds 30% variation in what would 
actually work best. This is especially true when the radial 
system is truncated in some directions or when the soil is 
non-homogeneous (as most locations probably have).

W7EL and myself went through a thing here a few months ago 
trying to measure my soil conductivity. We followed a few 
well-written articles about soil conductivity 
measurements...and the results were all over the place. With 
a laboratory grade impedance test set my soil is either 
30mS/meter or much less than 1mS/meter...depending on what 
particular measurement method we used.

I know it doesn't sound professional to say this but having 
spent many hundreds of hours measuring systems using actual 
FS measurements when **only the radials** were changed, the 
sad fact is the only accurate universal answer is to use as 
many radials as you can and make them as long and as 
straight as you can make them. You either have to tie 
everything possible into the ground system, or you could 
have an elevated resonant system that has NO ground 
connection. No ground connection includes an RF ground path 
back through the coax shield when you are using a few 
elevated radials, because the simple act of connecting the 
common point of the radials to a lossy earth connection 
(like through the coax shield) can cost you something up to 
1dB.

At my last two locations 10-15 radials on or in the ground 
were about equal to four elevated radials in a ground 
isolated system. The FS also quit increasing at about 50 
radials (buried or elevated, it made no difference) and any 
connection to a ground rod from the elevated system 
noticeably reduced the measured field strength.

Just install as many radials as long, straight, and spread 
out as you can manage, and that's it. No need to go over 50 
radials. You never pay a price in signal strength from 
having too many radials, but you can from having too few or 
too short.

73 Tom 


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