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Re: Topband: Waller Flag Question

To: <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Waller Flag Question
From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Reply-to: Tom W8JI <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 21:23:06 -0400
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Thank you, JC:

I don't know where this coming from ,but the gain you need for a VWF modest size is 20db for vertical polarization and for horizontal HWF you need 40db
on 160m, on 80m divide this by 2, you need only 20 dB  and on 40m 10 dB a
NORTON preamp is enough. All situations you need a band pass filter.


20 dB is a realistic gain figure.

The very low sensitivity of horizontal polarization, because at low heights in wavelength the earth "shorts the electric field", and because at low heights the earth's reflection nulls the antenna peak response, causes great difficulty.

If local site noise is high, and if care is taken in balance, the horizontal system can be built but 40 dB gain is unlikely to be needed unless the receiver is dead.

The reason is pretty simple. Most receivers are in the minus 130-140 dBm noise floor range. If you added 40 dB gain to that, the noise figure of the required front end would be an impossible negative noise figure in the -20 dB or more noise figure range. Of course anything less than 1 dB is very difficult, and below 1/2 dB starts to be impossible. Even if you obtain that noise figure, cable leakages and common mode would overwhelm the low antenna level.

20 dB is about the limit for most receivers, although a dead receiver could use 40. If the receiver is stone deaf, 40 dB would allow a workable noise figure at the front end. :-)

This low sensitivity is why K6STI's antenna met with such limited reports of success. If the site is very noisy with local distant noise, then the antenna's noise floor is high enough to limit system noise floor. Otherwise, the cables and input amplifier would set noise floor.

I have a similar thing here with a commercial loop antenna. Even though vertically polarized, it is noise limited at my location by internal amplifier noise. Now if I move it into a noisy location, it limits by outside noise.

No matter what we try to do, we are not going to have a 0 dB noise figure. When we start making the antenna sensitivity so low it requires gain with a normal receiver so unrealistic that it limits on the front end noise, it is useless. What good would seeing the S meter at S-2 or S-4 from amplifier noise do? That is what the popular commercial loop I have does. In a quiet location, it limits on its own internal amplifier noise. Six dB less gain does not change S/N ratio one bit.

We should all question systems that need 40dB with normal receivers. 20 dB is more rational.

73 Tom
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