Ed - NI6S question about using his 106-foot high tower
===========================================
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 10:29:24 -0800
From: Ed via Topband <topband@contesting.com>
To: "topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
Message-ID: <DE0E5EF3-9737-472A-9F2E-9A4A2B7EB727@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Trying to figure out how to best utilize my 106' tower for 160m. The tower
sits on a small hill so the downside of the tower is sloping. If I hang a
wire off the top, I can bring the other end to the ground and feed it at
the bottom. I can ran numerous radials from there.
This arrangement can accommodate a quarter wave length. The angle of the
tower would be about 20 degrees.
Any objections to this plan? Open to other ideas.
Thanks in advance and happy holidays!
Ed NI6S
==================================================================
Ed - You could just Shunt-feed the tower and install lots of radials to get
on 160. I examined
a model I'll call the "Four" (due to its shape when viewed with the
feed-point to the left
looking into the plane of the wires) for your situation and came up with
the following:
Connect a 136-foot piece of #12 copper wire from an insulator spaced about
a foot away
from the tower-top and route it to a post 10-feet high 96 feet away from
the base of the
tower to one end of an insulator.
Connect another 136-foot length of #12 Copper wire to the opposite end of
the lower
insulator and run the wire back toward the tower (missing the tower) and
tie-off at 10-feet
high. Feed the antenna from the junction of the H-wire and sloping-wire.
EZNEC5 calculates :
Peak Gain ~ -1.6dBi at 25-degrees
Z_feed should be around 11-Ohms so you will have to do some matching to get
50-Ohms.
I modeled the tower as a grounded 8-inch diameter wire 106 feet tall
Looks like a reasonable experiment you can try among the others suggested
to you. Good luck . . .
de Dick/w7wkr CN97uj and wd2xsh-26 at CN98pi
On Thu, Dec 25, 2014 at 9:00 AM, <topband-request@contesting.com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (Ed via Topband)
> 2. Re: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (Jim Brown)
> 3. Re: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (James Wolf)
> 4. Re: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (Jorge Diez CX6VM)
> 5. Re: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (Jim Brown)
> 6. Re: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (Art Roberts - W5AER)
> 7. Re: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (Richard (Rick) Karlquist)
> 8. Re: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (Paul Elliott)
> 9. Re: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (Dave Hollander)
> 10. Re: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (Tom W8JI)
> 11. Re: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna? (Charlie Cunningham)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 10:29:24 -0800
> From: Ed via Topband <topband@contesting.com>
> To: "topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com>
> Subject: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <DE0E5EF3-9737-472A-9F2E-9A4A2B7EB727@yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Trying to figure out how to best utilize my 106' tower for 160m. The
> tower sits on a small hill so the downside of the tower is sloping. If I
> hang a wire off the top, I can bring the other end to the ground and feed
> it at the bottom. I can ran numerous radials from there.
>
> This arrangement can accommodate a quarter wave length. The angle of the
> tower would be about 20 degrees.
>
> Any objections to this plan? Open to other ideas.
>
> Thanks in advance and happy holidays!
>
> Ed NI6S
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 10:46:20 -0800
> From: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <549B09FC.7030209@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> On Wed,12/24/2014 10:29 AM, Ed via Topband wrote:
> > Trying to figure out how to best utilize my 106' tower for 160m. The
> tower sits on a small hill so the downside of the tower is sloping. If I
> hang a wire off the top, I can bring the other end to the ground and feed
> it at the bottom. I can ran numerous radials from there.
>
> That's exactly what I'm doing -- my tower is 115 ft with roughly 7 ft of
> mast above it and a 3-el SteppIR. I have sloping wires on two opposite
> sides, supported from the tower just below the rotator with a 10 ft
> section of 4-in PVC conduit. Each wire has its own set of 4 radials
> elevated about 18 ft. The tower, which is grounded, has a dozen or so
> radials laying on the ground.
>
> With this configuration, the tower will act as a reflector, yielding
> about 6 dB front to back. How much GAIN you get will depend on your
> radial system and the quality of your soil. I started with radials
> elevated only a few feet, and gain was poor. On the advice of N6BT, I
> raised them and gain improved.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 14:10:14 -0500
> From: "James Wolf" <jbwolf@comcast.net>
> To: <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>, <topband@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <001101d01fad$3f589e80$be09db80$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I used to use a similar method on 80 meters.
> Why not feed it (them) at the top?
>
> Jim - KR9U
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Brown
> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 1:46 PM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
>
> On Wed,12/24/2014 10:29 AM, Ed via Topband wrote:
> > Trying to figure out how to best utilize my 106' tower for 160m. The
> tower sits on a small hill so the downside of the tower is sloping. If I
> hang a wire off the top, I can bring the other end to the ground and feed
> it
> at the bottom. I can ran numerous radials from there.
>
> That's exactly what I'm doing -- my tower is 115 ft with roughly 7 ft of
> mast above it and a 3-el SteppIR. I have sloping wires on two opposite
> sides, supported from the tower just below the rotator with a 10 ft section
> of 4-in PVC conduit. Each wire has its own set of 4 radials elevated about
> 18 ft. The tower, which is grounded, has a dozen or so radials laying on
> the
> ground.
>
> With this configuration, the tower will act as a reflector, yielding about
> 6
> dB front to back. How much GAIN you get will depend on your radial system
> and the quality of your soil. I started with radials elevated only a few
> feet, and gain was poor. On the advice of N6BT, I raised them and gain
> improved.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 19:05:43 -0200
> From: Jorge Diez CX6VM <cx6vm.jorge@gmail.com>
> To: "jbwolf@comcast.net" <jbwolf@comcast.net>
> Cc: "<topband@contesting.com>" <topband@contesting.com>,
> "<jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>" <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <0428300E-9EEF-49C9-B195-1CC73D0E76F1@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Do a sloper (half WL) and feed in the center.
>
> Half of one of the half go to the other side, like an inverted V
>
> 73, Jorge
> CX6VM/CW5W
>
> Enviado desde mi iPhone
>
> > El 24/12/2014, a las 17:10, "James Wolf" <jbwolf@comcast.net> escribi?:
> >
> > I used to use a similar method on 80 meters.
> > Why not feed it (them) at the top?
> >
> > Jim - KR9U
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Jim
> Brown
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 1:46 PM
> > To: topband@contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> >
> >> On Wed,12/24/2014 10:29 AM, Ed via Topband wrote:
> >> Trying to figure out how to best utilize my 106' tower for 160m. The
> > tower sits on a small hill so the downside of the tower is sloping. If I
> > hang a wire off the top, I can bring the other end to the ground and
> feed it
> > at the bottom. I can ran numerous radials from there.
> >
> > That's exactly what I'm doing -- my tower is 115 ft with roughly 7 ft of
> > mast above it and a 3-el SteppIR. I have sloping wires on two opposite
> > sides, supported from the tower just below the rotator with a 10 ft
> section
> > of 4-in PVC conduit. Each wire has its own set of 4 radials elevated
> about
> > 18 ft. The tower, which is grounded, has a dozen or so radials laying on
> the
> > ground.
> >
> > With this configuration, the tower will act as a reflector, yielding
> about 6
> > dB front to back. How much GAIN you get will depend on your radial system
> > and the quality of your soil. I started with radials elevated only a few
> > feet, and gain was poor. On the advice of N6BT, I raised them and gain
> > improved.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 13:53:45 -0800
> From: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <549B35E9.1050107@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On Wed,12/24/2014 1:05 PM, Jorge Diez CX6VM wrote:
> > Half of one of the half go to the other side, like an inverted V
>
> That would be a pretty low dipole on 160M, and verticals tend to be far
> more effective on 160M than low dipoles.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 18:39:19 -0500
> From: Art Roberts - W5AER <w5aer@hotmail.com>
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <BLU436-SMTP153241D276DC68D23D0AD57FB540@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed
>
> On the thought of a low dipole:
>
> Years ago in Northern California, as an experiment, I had a VERY low
> dipole and got some strange results. Listening to a local station, in
> the afternoon, there was very deep QSB. We were able to talk, but with
> difficulty.
>
> 73,
> Art W5AER
>
>
> On 12/24/2014 4:53 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> > On Wed,12/24/2014 1:05 PM, Jorge Diez CX6VM wrote:
> >> Half of one of the half go to the other side, like an inverted V
> >
> > That would be a pretty low dipole on 160M, and verticals tend to be
> > far more effective on 160M than low dipoles.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2014 18:23:47 -0800
> From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>
> To: Art Roberts - W5AER <w5aer@hotmail.com>, topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <549B7533.9040603@karlquist.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
>
>
> On 12/24/2014 3:39 PM, Art Roberts - W5AER wrote:
> > On the thought of a low dipole:
> >
> > Years ago in Northern California, as an experiment, I had a VERY low
> > dipole and got some strange results. Listening to a local station, in
> > the afternoon, there was very deep QSB. We were able to talk, but with
> > difficulty.
> >
> > 73,
> > Art W5AER
> >
>
> Were you cross polarized; IE was the other station running a vertical?
> If so, minor fluctuations in propagation could result in major
> fluctations of polarization cancellation.
>
> Rick N6RK
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 06:17:17 -0000
> From: "Paul Elliott" <paab@valornet.com>
> To: <topband@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <000001d0200a$6f184e10$4d48ea30$@valornet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Jorge,
>
>
>
> I have a 160m antenna asymmetrical antenna, fed against ground, that goes
> from one corner of my 120 ft by 120 ft lot to the opposite corner. It is
> held up by a single pole, about 55 ft tall. The pole is closer to the fed
> end. The wire going up to the pole makes about a 65 degree angle above the
> horizontal; the wire going down to the opposite corner makes an angle of
> about 25 degrees below the horizontal (the angles are estimated by eye-they
> definitely have not been measured). The far end is about 10 ft off the
> ground. In other words an inverted L where the vertical part is not
> vertical and the horizontal part is not horizontal. The length is the
> length
> arrived at by many trials and errors that, with a matching capacitor
> between
> the antenna and one inch hardline coax feeder, yielded an SWR of
> approximately 1:1 at 1825 mHz. I also use this antenna on 80 m through 10
> m
> by using an antenna tuner in the shack.
>
>
>
> My radials are about one inch deep in the ground and restricted to one
> quadrant. They vary in length from 100 ft (along the north and east fence
> lines) down to 35 ft (house in the way). Number of radials is probably
> about 20 (I really don't remember).
>
>
>
> QTH is SE NM. Maximum power is 500 watts. I have 190 countries confirmed
> on160 m. I have no idea of the pattern of the 160 m antenna. I am
> guessing that it works as well as it does because the maximum radiation
> occurs well above ground (and the ground around its feed point is very
> cluttered by power lines, houses, trees) and is not straight up (like a low
> inverted dipole).
>
>
>
> 73 Paul W5DM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 07:29:50 -0700
> From: Dave Hollander <n7rk@cox.net>
> To: Ed <navydude1962@yahoo.com>
> Cc: Ed via Topband <topband@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <549C1F5E.4080402@cox.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi Ed - I have done the same thing on 80/75 meters with great results
> using a tree and a sling shot to get the wire up. Used chicken wire for
> the ground system.
>
> Did this the first time from an apartment in Phoenix, Arizona in the
> late 90's using a 45 foot tree and put a 8ft x4ft pieced of chicken wire
> on the balcony of my 2nd floor apartment. Although tuned for 80/75, I
> got it to play on 160-10 with the appropriate matching devices. Worked
> 135 countries on 80/75 with this setup and since I was going through a
> divorce, it helped me keep my sanity.
>
> Happy holidays.
>
> Tnx and 73,
>
> Dave N7RK
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 11:02:26 -0500
> From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji@w8ji.com>
> To: "Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>, "Art
> Roberts
> - W5AER" <w5aer@hotmail.com>, <topband@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <A3017EE330014C5D8B35EB188EF0DE99@MAIN>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=response
>
> More likely it was a mix of groundwave and sky wave, if the station was
> local, cancelling or reinforcing signal as phase shifted on the sky wave
> path.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>
> To: "Art Roberts - W5AER" <w5aer@hotmail.com>; <topband@contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
>
>
> >
> >
> > On 12/24/2014 3:39 PM, Art Roberts - W5AER wrote:
> >> On the thought of a low dipole:
> >>
> >> Years ago in Northern California, as an experiment, I had a VERY low
> >> dipole and got some strange results. Listening to a local station, in
> >> the afternoon, there was very deep QSB. We were able to talk, but with
> >> difficulty.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Art W5AER
> >>
> >
> > Were you cross polarized; IE was the other station running a vertical?
> > If so, minor fluctuations in propagation could result in major
> > fluctations of polarization cancellation.
> >
> > Rick N6RK
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2014.0.4794 / Virus Database: 4253/8802 - Release Date: 12/24/14
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2014 11:16:05 -0500
> From: "Charlie Cunningham" <charlie-cunningham@nc.rr.com>
> To: "'Tom W8JI'" <w8ji@w8ji.com>, "'Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist'"
> <richard@karlquist.com>, "'Art Roberts - W5AER'" <
> w5aer@hotmail.com>,
> <topband@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
> Message-ID: <005d01d0205e$166448b0$432cda10$@nc.rr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Multi-path was my thought as well!
>
> Merry Christmas!
>
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Tom
> W8JI
> Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2014 11:02 AM
> To: Richard (Rick) Karlquist; Art Roberts - W5AER; topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
>
> More likely it was a mix of groundwave and sky wave, if the station was
> local, cancelling or reinforcing signal as phase shifted on the sky wave
> path.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>
> To: "Art Roberts - W5AER" <w5aer@hotmail.com>; <topband@contesting.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 9:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: 160m Sloping Vertical Antenna?
>
>
> >
> >
> > On 12/24/2014 3:39 PM, Art Roberts - W5AER wrote:
> >> On the thought of a low dipole:
> >>
> >> Years ago in Northern California, as an experiment, I had a VERY low
> >> dipole and got some strange results. Listening to a local station, in
> >> the afternoon, there was very deep QSB. We were able to talk, but with
> >> difficulty.
> >>
> >> 73,
> >> Art W5AER
> >>
> >
> > Were you cross polarized; IE was the other station running a vertical?
> > If so, minor fluctuations in propagation could result in major
> > fluctations of polarization cancellation.
> >
> > Rick N6RK
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
> >
> >
> > -----
> > No virus found in this message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 2014.0.4794 / Virus Database: 4253/8802 - Release Date: 12/24/14
> >
>
> _________________
> Topband Reflector Archives - http://www.contesting.com/_topband
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Topband Digest, Vol 144, Issue 34
> ****************************************
>
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