Steve,
This is really helpful.
One point of clarification: now that the 12V is not traversing the coax, what
power source are you using? Solar panel + battery, or other?
73, David G3WGN M6O
-----Original Message-----
From: VE6WZ Steve <ve6wz@shaw.ca>
Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2023 12:35 AM
To: Frank W3LPL <donovanf@starpower.net>
Cc: topband <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: 2-element receiving arrays
I received a few private emails asking similar questions about my power
redesign of my amps.
I need to clarify this.
Yes, I have redesigned a version of a HI-Z amp that does not use 12v on the
coax. Each require a dedicated 12v supply line.
I right now have about 15 of these amps deployed in the field for my new BOG
broadside phased array system.
I have not yet swapped out the amplifiers on my 9C for a redesigned model
because so far they have remained noise stable. However, all the amps in my 9C
have had the PCB judiciously cleaned and carefully coated.
Another question was have I actually seen this noise problem from micro-arcing?
The answer is yes. Absolutely. In some cases it became very bad. In all cases
this was on poorly cleaned and un-coated PCBs that developed moisture. On at
least 5 of the amps I could actually see what looked like galvanic corrosion
developing at the F-connectors on the PCB. A white dusty powder had developed
across the connector. This was not because of serious water intrusion, but
just moisture and humidity developing in the boxes. If some day I switch out
the amps I have now, I will not use a bias-T voltage supply.
As for modifying the combiner not much is required except to snip the RFC at
each f connector and supply 12v through an RFC to the supply line going to each
amp.
Steve, Ve6wz
From Babcocks iPhone
> On Mar 30, 2023, at 6:31 PM, VE6WZ Steve <ve6wz@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> I strongly second Franks comment about weather proofing.
>
> Equally important on any outside electronics is to very carefully clean ALL
> the residual flux off the PC boards, and especially on the F-connector solder
> pads.
> ALSO, apply some acrylic conformal coating on all outdoor PCBs.
>
> With 12v on the coax line with a bias-T setup, even small amounts of dirt
> stuck to old flux and then combined with moisture can cause serious noise
> issues with micro conduction between the centre conductor and ground pads.
>
> I have since redesigned all my rx amplifiers to use a separate 12v dedicated
> supply voltage to keep the DC off the coax.
>
> 73, Steve Ve6wz
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On Mar 30, 2023, at 2:18 PM, Frank W3LPL <donovanf@starpower.net> wrote:
> >
> > Tiler,
> >
> > Congratulations on your new five circle YCCC array!
> >
> > Be sure you very effectively waterproof all of your coaxial cable
> > connectors that carry DC power. Even the slightest amount of
> > moisture in the connectors will cause micro-arcing of the DC voltage,
> > raising your noise floor by many dB.
> >
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> >
> >
> > From: "K3MM" <k3mm@verizon.net>
> > To: "Frank W3LPL" <donovanf@starpower.net>, "topband"
> > <Topband@contesting.com>, "PVRC" <pvrc@mailman.qth.net>
> > Cc: "Pete N4ZR N4ZR" <pete.n4zr@gmail.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2023 8:08:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: Topband: 2-element receiving arrays
> >
> > I just completed building a YCCC nine Circle array using V E6WZ PC boards
> > with the latest mods, including on board chokes. I actually have it
> > deployed currently as a five circle As I’ll be taking it down soon for
> > mowing season, but it works quite well. The patterns on all three bands,
> > 160 through 40 are as advertised. Very good patterns but not the best
> > sensitivity . I built mine as about 23 foot verticals. I’d say compares
> > favorably to my 500 foot beverage, antennna although it requires a lot of
> > pre-amplification. Due to the active electronics it can be overloaded by
> > close transmit antennnas so perhaps not as useful for a multiband operation
> > in a small area.
> > I’m providing power over the coax cable and using green heron everywhere,
> > wireless remote control, which works quite well and is controlled by the PC
> > software using a mouse or hotkeys.
> >
> > It was a fun project. It turned out quite well, but not in expensive. I
> > scrounged about half the aluminum tubing and angle I’m using for the bases
> > and probably spent $1500 or so. including the remote control hardware. next
> > fall, I’ll deploy the full nine circle array, but the five circle is
> > probably almost as useful and avoids some complexity and cost. i’ll also
> > probably relocate it to get more separation from some of the transmit
> > antennnas.
> >
> > Ty K3MM
> >
> > [
> > https://apps.apple.com/us/app/aol-news-email-weather-video/id6461006
> > 61 | Sent from the all new AOL app for iOS ]
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, March 30, 2023, 1:38 PM, Frank W3LPL <donovanf@starpower.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Pete,
> >
> > For a monoband receiving array, you might consider using low
> > impedance resonant verticals rather than high impedance verticals.
> >
> > The primary advantages of high impedance verticals are
> > - very short verticals (but taller verticals produce stronger
> > signals)
> > - multi-band operation
> > - no radials
> >
> > The primary disadvantages are
> > - reliability issues with outdoor electronics
> > - lightning susceptibility of outdoor electronics
> > - higher cost
> > - much lower signal levels
> > - extreme care required to suppress common mode signals (buried
> > feedlines are highly recommended)
> > - negative effects of nearby trees and buildings.
> >
> > The primary advantages of low impedance verticals are
> > - much stronger signal levels
> > - much less criticality of common mode signal suppression,
> > - much lower cost
> > - much higher reliability
> > - immunity to lightning damage
> > - much less affected by nearby trees and buildings
> >
> > The primary disadvantages are
> > - taller verticals (typically about 24 feet)
> > - radials (they can be very short if many radials are used)
> > - mono band operation (switchable matching networks can be used for
> > multi-band operation).
> >
> > I highly recommend the DX Engineering Receiving Antenna Phasing System.
> > Its expensive but well worth the investment especially for a small array.
> >
> > [ https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-ncc-2 |
> > https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-ncc-2 ]
> >
> > If you have 120 feet for a three element array, the YCCC array is a
> > great choice It can use high impedance or low impedance verticals
> > Unfortunately its no longer available from DX Engineering The nine
> > element YCCC array uses only three active elements at any time, so
> > its really a three element array switchable in many directions.
> >
> > [
> > https://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/instructions/dxe-yccc
> > -switch.pdf?_gl=1*1cv0fc9*_ga*MjEyMDA1Nzc3MS4xNjUyMzAyMjc0*_ga_NZB59
> > 0FMHY*MTY4MDE5NTk1OC40My4xLjE2ODAxOTYwNTYuNTAuMC4w |
> > https://static.dxengineering.com/global/images/instructions/dxe-yccc
> > -switch.pdf?_gl=1*1cv0fc9*_ga*MjEyMDA1Nzc3MS4xNjUyMzAyMjc0*_ga_NZB59
> > 0FMHY*MTY4MDE5NTk1OC40My4xLjE2ODAxOTYwNTYuNTAuMC4w ]
> >
> > [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl-crM5Kb6A |
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl-crM5Kb6A ]
> >
> > [ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVW1CmrzP7c |
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVW1CmrzP7c ]
> >
> > A two element array occupies only 60 feet or even a little less.
> >
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Pete N4ZR N4ZR" < [ mailto:pete.n4zr@gmail.com |
> > pete.n4zr@gmail.com ] >
> > To: "topband" < [ mailto:Topband@contesting.com |
> > Topband@contesting.com ] >
> > Sent: Thursday, March 30, 2023 12:54:30 PM
> > Subject: Topband: 2-element receiving arrays
> >
> > Thinking ahead to next winter on 160, I'm interested in replacing my
> > K9AY Loop with a 2-vertical phased array. I'd like to homebrew the
> > antennas and just buy or build the remote control unit for the shack.
> > I'm looking for sources of components (antenna-located preamps and
> > an in-shack controller), and would prefer not to completely homebrew
> > them, but the prices at the usual suspects are awfully high. Any ideas?
> >
> > I have pretty reasonably-priced access to 25 and 31-foot fiberglass
> > poles (used for wind-socks by model airplane enthusiasts). I'm
> > thinking that one relatively low-cost approach might be to attach,
> > say, #14 wire to the poles, with preamps at the base, but wonder if
> > there is a downside to using such small-diameter antenna elements
> > rather than 1 or
> > 1.5 inch tubing? Alternatively, are clones of the DX Engineering 8'
> > short verticals with preamps a good alternative?
> >
> > --
> > 73, Pete N4ZR
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: [ http://www.contesting.com/_topband |
> > http://www.contesting.com/_topband ] - Topband Reflector
> >
> > BQ_BEGIN
> >
> >
> >
> > BQ_END
> >
> >
> > _________________
> > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband
> > Reflector
> _________________
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