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Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 262, Issue 4

To: <towertalk@contesting.com>, "'Stan Stockton'" <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 262, Issue 4
From: <w2fu@frontiernet.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 10:22:32 -0400
List-post: <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Stan,

I would bet this is 75 ohm CATV stuff.  I used some of that years ago for
uWave work.  1" was a common size.  I "made" connectors for it with copper
fittings, and a Female 'N' connector.  You could also use female UHF I
suppose.  

Solid outer, solid center!  But I the outer I though was Aluminum though,
and the center was CCS

Jeff - W2FU

-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Saturday, October 5, 2024 8:57 AM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 262, Issue 4

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Today's Topics:

   1. Heliax question (Stan Stockton)
   2. Re: Heliax question (dj7ww@t-online.de)
   3. Re: Heliax question (Michael Tope)
   4. Re: Heliax question (Stan Stockton)
   5. Re: Heliax question (Stan Stockton)
   6. Re: Heliax question (dj7ww@t-online.de)
   7. Re: Heliax question (Jim W7RY)
   8. Re: Heliax question (Paul Christensen)
   9. Re: Heliax question (Jeff DePolo)
  10. Re: Heliax question (Stan Stockton)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 03:50:38 -0500
From: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
To: "TowerTalk@contesting.com" <TowerTalk@contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Message-ID: <B0A60DB3-E270-437D-A643-A656B9ECB642@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

In all my stuff I have about a 175 foot length of Heliax that measures 1
inch in diameter as opposed to the 7/8 inch measurement on the 7/8? Heliax I
have.  I thought it could be that it is 7/8? that has swelled somehow, but
it looks like new when I cut off the jacket.

The center conductor is solid - not tubular.  I cannot read any writing on
it to know what the part number might be, nor have I been able to find
anything on Google or ChatGpt.  

Do you know what I might have (part number) and where I could find a couple
of connectors?

Thanks?Stan, K5GO


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 11:29:48 +0200 (CEST)
From: "dj7ww@t-online.de" <dj7ww@t-online.de>
To: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
Cc: "contesting,  towertalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Message-ID:
        
<1728120588453.1631671.d8b3f10ce6d087502d046b2570c2d49ae9bde33f@spica.teleko
m.de>
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

HF 5/8" Cu2Y - 50 Ohm air dielectric cable has 22.3 jacket diameter, the
solid inner conductor is 6.3mm diameter.
7/8" Cellflex cable or LDF5-50 has about 1.1" outside diameter, not 7/8"

Your other cable might be LDF4.5-50

73
Peter, DJ7WW


-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Datum: 2024-10-05T10:51:12+0200
Von: "Stan Stockton" <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
An: "TowerTalk@contesting.com" <TowerTalk@contesting.com>

In all my stuff I have about a 175 foot length of Heliax that measures 1
inch in diameter as opposed to the 7/8 inch measurement on the 7/8? Heliax I
have.  I thought it could be that it is 7/8? that has swelled somehow, but
it looks like new when I cut off the jacket.

The center conductor is solid - not tubular.  I cannot read any writing on
it to know what the part number might be, nor have I been able to find
anything on Google or ChatGpt.  

Do you know what I might have (part number) and where I could find a couple
of connectors?

Thanks?Stan, K5GO
_______________________________________________



_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
?



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 02:30:53 -0700
From: Michael Tope <W4EF@dellroy.com>
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Message-ID: <c7b3b56c-b903-426c-ac5e-bdd6fd3c57c4@dellroy.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Hi Stan,

A true 1" ID hard line would seem to be a real oddball. I don't recall ever
seeing 1" Heliax before. There are a couple of things that could help
identify the cable. One is the diameter of the center conductor. 
The other is a description of the dielectric material. Is it a solid foam,
or is it mostly air with a helical dielectric spacer?

Since you identified the cable as "Heliax" is it fair to assume that the
outer conductor is corrugated copper?

73, Mike W4EF..............

On 10/5/2024 1:50 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
> In all my stuff I have about a 175 foot length of Heliax that measures 1
inch in diameter as opposed to the 7/8 inch measurement on the 7/8? Heliax I
have.  I thought it could be that it is 7/8? that has swelled somehow, but
it looks like new when I cut off the jacket.
>
> The center conductor is solid - not tubular.  I cannot read any writing on
it to know what the part number might be, nor have I been able to find
anything on Google or ChatGpt.
>
> Do you know what I might have (part number) and where I could find a
couple of connectors?
>
> Thanks?Stan, K5GO
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 05:28:14 -0500
From: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
To: "dj7ww@t-online.de" <dj7ww@t-online.de>
Cc: "contesting, towertalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Message-ID: <FB319573-1924-4A77-94E9-BAF260CAD983@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Thanks for the information, Peter. I appreciate you trying to figure it out.

LDF4.5-50 has a diameter over dielectric of .71 inches and the inner
conductor is .28 inches. I don?t have anything that small.  I am positive
the other coax I have is 7/8? Andrew Heliax.  This one I haven?t been able
to identify is (as closely as I can measure with a tape measure) 1/8? larger
over the dielectric than the 7/8?.  Just looking at the ends of them side by
side one is visibly larger.

Right now I would be happy to find a part number for 7/8? Heliax with a
solid center conductor or connector for same to see if I could make it work.

Stan

> On Oct 5, 2024, at 4:30?AM, dj7ww@t-online.de wrote:
> 
> ?HF 5/8" Cu2Y - 50 Ohm air dielectric cable has 22.3 jacket diameter, the
solid inner conductor is 6.3mm diameter.
> 7/8" Cellflex cable or LDF5-50 has about 1.1" outside diameter, not 7/8"
> 
> Your other cable might be LDF4.5-50
> 
> 73
> Peter, DJ7WW
> 
> 
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
> Betreff: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
> Datum: 2024-10-05T10:51:12+0200
> Von: "Stan Stockton" <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
> An: "TowerTalk@contesting.com" <TowerTalk@contesting.com>
> 
> In all my stuff I have about a 175 foot length of Heliax that measures 1
inch in diameter as opposed to the 7/8 inch measurement on the 7/8? Heliax I
have.  I thought it could be that it is 7/8? that has swelled somehow, but
it looks like new when I cut off the jacket.
> 
> The center conductor is solid - not tubular.  I cannot read any writing on
it to know what the part number might be, nor have I been able to find
anything on Google or ChatGpt.  
> 
> Do you know what I might have (part number) and where I could find a
couple of connectors?
> 
> Thanks?Stan, K5GO
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> ?



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 05:37:58 -0500
From: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
To: Michael Tope <W4EF@dellroy.com>
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Message-ID: <48E124C1-C05E-4C58-B998-6B1BF98D361D@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Thanks, Mike.

It is corrugated outer conductor like normal Heliax.  I haven?t measured the
inner conductor yet but did attempt to drill a straight 1/4? hole so I could
try to screw in the center pin used on the tubular center conductor on 7/8?.
There was plenty of wall thickness left.  I?m just guessing the inner
conductor is about 3/8?. Solid foam dielectric.  I can get a 7/8? connector
over this stuff though it measures larger in diameter.  I  think if I had
center pins that were made for 7/8? solid inner conductor Heliax, I might be
in business.

Stan

> On Oct 5, 2024, at 4:38?AM, Michael Tope <W4EF@dellroy.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi Stan,
> 
> A true 1" ID hard line would seem to be a real oddball. I don't recall
ever seeing 1" Heliax before. There are a couple of things that could help
identify the cable. One is the diameter of the center conductor. The other
is a description of the dielectric material. Is it a solid foam, or is it
mostly air with a helical dielectric spacer?
> 
> Since you identified the cable as "Heliax" is it fair to assume that the
outer conductor is corrugated copper?
> 
> 73, Mike W4EF..............
> 
>> On 10/5/2024 1:50 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
>> In all my stuff I have about a 175 foot length of Heliax that measures 1
inch in diameter as opposed to the 7/8 inch measurement on the 7/8? Heliax I
have.  I thought it could be that it is 7/8? that has swelled somehow, but
it looks like new when I cut off the jacket.
>> 
>> The center conductor is solid - not tubular.  I cannot read any writing
on it to know what the part number might be, nor have I been able to find
anything on Google or ChatGpt.
>> 
>> Do you know what I might have (part number) and where I could find a
couple of connectors?
>> 
>> Thanks?Stan, K5GO
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 14:03:28 +0200 (MEST)
From: "dj7ww@t-online.de" <dj7ww@t-online.de>
To: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
Cc: "contesting, towertalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Message-ID:
        
<1728129808457.1638253.7858f8ec6d8342d905fffb4a3e84b7e008c363c1@spica.teleko
m.de>
        
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Hi Stan,.

I never saw 7/8" Heliax or Cellflex with solid inner conductor.

The 5/8" Heliflex ( old name Flexwell) by RFS which should be equivalent to
4.5-50 has different measurements but is air dielcric:

Technical Data Sheet
FLEXWELL Air Dielectric Cable
HF 5/8" Cu2Y - 50 Ohm
HF 5/8" CuH - 50 Ohm

Structure
Inner conductor:        Copper wire     6.3 mm
Dielectric:     High density polyethylene helix 13.6 mm
Outer conductor:        Corrugated copper tube  18.9 mm
Jacket: Polyethylene, black     22.3 mm

73
Peter, DJ7WW



-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Datum: 2024-10-05T12:28:37+0200
Von: "Stan Stockton" <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
An: "dj7ww@t-online.de" <dj7ww@t-online.de>

Thanks for the information, Peter. I appreciate you trying to figure it out.

LDF4.5-50 has a diameter over dielectric of .71 inches and the inner
conductor is .28 inches. I don?t have anything that small.  I am positive
the other coax I have is 7/8? Andrew Heliax.  This one I haven?t been able
to identify is (as closely as I can measure with a tape measure) 1/8? larger
over the dielectric than the 7/8?.  Just looking at the ends of them side by
side one is visibly larger.

Right now I would be happy to find a part number for 7/8? Heliax with a
solid center conductor or connector for same to see if I could make it work.

Stan

> On Oct 5, 2024, at 4:30?AM, dj7ww@t-online.de wrote:
> 
> ?HF 5/8" Cu2Y - 50 Ohm air dielectric cable has 22.3 jacket diameter, the
solid inner conductor is 6.3mm diameter.
> 7/8" Cellflex cable or LDF5-50 has about 1.1" outside diameter, not 7/8"
> 
> Your other cable might be LDF4.5-50
> 
> 73
> Peter, DJ7WW
> 
> 
> -----Original-Nachricht-----
> Betreff: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
> Datum: 2024-10-05T10:51:12+0200
> Von: "Stan Stockton" <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
> An: "TowerTalk@contesting.com" <TowerTalk@contesting.com>
> 
> In all my stuff I have about a 175 foot length of Heliax that measures 1
inch in diameter as opposed to the 7/8 inch measurement on the 7/8? Heliax I
have.  I thought it could be that it is 7/8? that has swelled somehow, but
it looks like new when I cut off the jacket.
> 
> The center conductor is solid - not tubular.  I cannot read any writing on
it to know what the part number might be, nor have I been able to find
anything on Google or ChatGpt.  
> 
> Do you know what I might have (part number) and where I could find a
couple of connectors?
> 
> Thanks?Stan, K5GO
> _______________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> ?
?



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 07:22:33 -0500
From: Jim W7RY <jimw7ry@gmail.com>
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Message-ID: <38eb243c-0b99-46fb-9ee5-1f4558bb7d21@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Send me a picture of it Stan to my direct email address.

Jim W7RY



On 10/5/2024 3:50 AM, Stan Stockton wrote:
> In all my stuff I have about a 175 foot length of Heliax that measures 1
inch in diameter as opposed to the 7/8 inch measurement on the 7/8? Heliax I
have.  I thought it could be that it is 7/8? that has swelled somehow, but
it looks like new when I cut off the jacket.
>
> The center conductor is solid - not tubular.  I cannot read any writing on
it to know what the part number might be, nor have I been able to find
anything on Google or ChatGpt.
>
> Do you know what I might have (part number) and where I could find a
couple of connectors?
>
> Thanks?Stan, K5GO
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk

--
Thanks and 73, Jim W7RY



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 08:26:14 -0400
From: "Paul Christensen" <w9ac@arrl.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Message-ID: <008d01db1721$c648eff0$52dacfd0$@arrl.net>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"

>"This one I haven?t been able to identify is (as closely as I can measure
with a tape measure) 1/8? larger over the dielectric than the 7/8?. "

Stan,

Is it possible you have a roll of 75-ohm cable?   When I was employed by
AT&T Broadband, in some instances we used Commscope 1-inch corrugated
coaxial cable with a solid inner and foam dielectric.  You could get a rough
idea by applying the simpler formula: Zo=138 ? log10(D/d), or better still,
with a cable that long, use a VNA and get a S11 measurement by alternating
between 75 and 50-ohm terminations.  

Paul, W9AC





------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 08:39:07 -0400
From: "Jeff DePolo" <jd0@broadsci.com>
To: <dj7ww@t-online.de>,        "'Stan Stockton'" <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
Cc: "'contesting, towertalk'" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Message-ID: <111701db1723$92a3bca0$b7eb35e0$@broadsci.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="utf-8"

> I never saw 7/8" Heliax or Cellflex with solid inner conductor.

Several older 7/8" Heliax-type cables had solid center conductors, with
Cablewave probably being the most common back in the 70's.  I still have
connectors for it if that's what it turns out to be.  Rather than a
thread-in or push-in center conductor contact as used with the tubular
center conductor on modern 7/8 cables, it had a center conductor assembly
that made contact with the outside of the center conductor.  Cleaning the
dielectric off the center conductor properly to prep for this type of
connector wasn't fun.  Unlike modern 7/8" cables, the shield and center
conductor weren't cut off flush with each other, the center had to protrude
by maybe 3/8" (it's been a while, don't quote me on that).

There was also a lot of Prodelin 7/8" cable that floated around on the
surplus market in the 1980's.  It, too, had a solid center conductor.  It
had, by far, the toughest outer jacket of any Heliax-style cable I've ever
had the displeasure of working with.  It was bonded to the shield and tough
as hell.  

To help identify what you have, a few more questions:

1.  Is the outer conductor corrugation helical ("spiral") or annular
("rings")?

2.  What is the measured OD of the outer conductor at the peaks?

3.  What is the measured OD of the inner conductor?

4.  Is the inner conductor solid copper or copper-clad aluminum?

5.  Confirming - the outer conductor is copper, not aluminum,correct?

                                        --- Jeff WN3A





------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 07:56:25 -0500
From: Stan Stockton <wa5rtg@gmail.com>
To: Jeff DePolo <jd0@broadsci.com>
Cc: dj7ww@t-online.de, "contesting, towertalk"
        <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Heliax question
Message-ID: <EF9493C0-AB1F-4C83-B8E3-D74E96796CA4@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Jeff,

Copper clad aluminum, rings not spiral, OD of outer conductor is 1?.  OD of
inner is 3/8?.  Outer conductor is copper.  I think you are on right track.
Measurements were all done with a steel tape measure as best I could.

Thanks..Stan

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 5, 2024, at 7:39?AM, Jeff DePolo <jd0@broadsci.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
>> 
>> I never saw 7/8" Heliax or Cellflex with solid inner conductor.
> 
> Several older 7/8" Heliax-type cables had solid center conductors, with
Cablewave probably being the most common back in the 70's.  I still have
connectors for it if that's what it turns out to be.  Rather than a
thread-in or push-in center conductor contact as used with the tubular
center conductor on modern 7/8 cables, it had a center conductor assembly
that made contact with the outside of the center conductor.  Cleaning the
dielectric off the center conductor properly to prep for this type of
connector wasn't fun.  Unlike modern 7/8" cables, the shield and center
conductor weren't cut off flush with each other, the center had to protrude
by maybe 3/8" (it's been a while, don't quote me on that).
> 
> There was also a lot of Prodelin 7/8" cable that floated around on the
surplus market in the 1980's.  It, too, had a solid center conductor.  It
had, by far, the toughest outer jacket of any Heliax-style cable I've ever
had the displeasure of working with.  It was bonded to the shield and tough
as hell.  
> 
> To help identify what you have, a few more questions:
> 
> 1.  Is the outer conductor corrugation helical ("spiral") or annular
("rings")?
> 
> 2.  What is the measured OD of the outer conductor at the peaks?
> 
> 3.  What is the measured OD of the inner conductor?
> 
> 4.  Is the inner conductor solid copper or copper-clad aluminum?
> 
> 5.  Confirming - the outer conductor is copper, not aluminum,correct?
> 
>                    --- Jeff WN3A
> 
> 



------------------------------

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------------------------------

End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 262, Issue 4
*****************************************


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