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Re: [TowerTalk] AES SK

To: "'David Gilbert'" <xdavid@cis-broadband.com>, <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] AES SK
From: "John Langdon" <jlangdon1@austin.rr.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2016 20:21:04 -0500
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
I concur. I have been involved in several big money 'where to build it' 
decision trees and the big two overarching factors were usually (1) how much 
uncertainty (time and chance of success) about getting the site plans approved 
and built, and (2) the cost and availability of reliable electrical service.  
Bureaucracy and 'green politics' often had a major and deleterious effect on 
our estimates of both factors.  The other two issues were usually the 
engineering and skilled labor pools and transportation costs to market. 

At one place we looked it, it would have been illegal to just run the municipal 
tap water down the municipal drains - it had to be cleaned up first, and site 
plan approval plus environmental reviews took years longer than the other 
alternatives.  Those regional master plans for 100% green power makes any 
industrial user very nervous about price and reliability - when energy is 40% 
of COGS and one power outage might cause you to dispose of millions of $ of 
work in process, and require several days to restart the line. 

Our psychological comfort level was always greater in the US or EU, but the 
hard numbers usually forced us to look elsewhere.  

I also worked at a ham store while in junior high and high school, and many 
hams were even bigger chiselers than most consumers, plus they often apply a 
fictitious mental discount to things 'I could build myself' when they really 
have no chance of doing it well if at all.  

73 John N5CQ


-----Original Message-----
From: TowerTalk [mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of David 
Gilbert
Sent: Saturday, July 9, 2016 2:56 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] AES SK


That's a bit simplistic.  I spent over 30 years working for a huge North 
American based semiconductor company, and there were a variety of reasons we 
ended up moving most manufacturing elsewhere.  Labor cost was certainly one of 
them, but rarely the deciding factor.  Others included:

1.  Availability of trained engineers.  Places like China and India have a far 
greater pool of highly skilled and dedicated engineers, and engineers in the 
U.S. tended to think of manufacturing as being "unglamorous."

2.  Proximity to local markets.  As the world economy became more global, being 
able to be closer to your customer had tremendous advantages in terms of 
customer relationships and cycle time reductions, not to mention trade (many 
countries lower tax rates for local content) and currency issues.

3.  Bureaucracy and overhead issues.  At one point we wanted to significantly 
expand a wafer fab locally, but were told by the city that it would take at 
least 18 months simply to get the approvals for it ... 
in spite of the fact that we had already proposed every safety and 
environmental upgrade imaginable for it.  Markets don't wait for that kind of 
crap, and we ended up having to build the fab offshore where some other entity 
actually wanted it.

Other industries faced different issues ... tax burdens in the U.S., ridiculous 
union requirements (much less of an issue now, of course, at least in most 
places), availability of raw materials, etc.  The problem as many of us 
recognized even back then was that once such manufacturing migrations begin 
they are very difficult to curb.  How many colleges and universities in North 
America offer engineering courses specifically geared toward manufacturing?  
Damn few, if any.  In Asia they are everywhere. Compare tax rates.  Compare 
transportation costs to major markets (North America is no longer the only one).

The list of reasons why such "big box" products are built elsewhere is almost 
endless, and while it may be convenient to blame the manufacturers for that it 
is simply scapegoating. Consumers who tend to buy the cheapest available 
product regardless of quality (and they are still the majority, to which I can 
attest having worked for a while at a big box store) share the blame, as do 
most other elements of the economic system that ignored cost and efficiency in 
favor of other 
factors.   I'd even bet that your own investment funds lie with 
companies that make as much profit as possible, as opposed to some company that 
tried to fight the system by paying higher wages, paying higher taxes, training 
it's own engineers, paying higher transportation costs ... etc, etc, etc.

Manufacturers mostly follow ... they don't really lead the parade.  I can say 
with great experience that moving manufacturing offshore is one of the 
riskiest, most traumatic actions a manufacturer can take.  It doesn't happen 
without significant outside pressure from one place or another.

73,

Dave  AB7E



On 7/7/2016 8:56 AM, Kelly Taylor wrote:
> A funny, though harrowing, tale of everything that’s wrong with the two 
> dominant North American first-world economies:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKv6RcXa2UI 
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKv6RcXa2UI>
>
> “Oh Big Box Mart, what have you sold to me? We used to be your customers, now 
> we’re your employees.”
>
> The pigeons of off-shore labour have come home to roost, and we’re seeing 
> increasing examples of the folly every day.
>
> 73, kelly, ve4xt,
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Jul 7, 2016, at 10:43 AM, ScottW3TX <scottw3tx@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> Most brick and mortar stores run on very thin profit margins that are
>> getting squeezed smaller and smaller in this new economy shift. Costs
>> (especially health insurance, regulatory, and base services to keep the
>> doors open), are going up at 8 to 12% per year. Meanwhile competition does
>> not allow for the final seller of products or service to raise prices.
>> There are no longer excess profits in smaller businesses to fund owner and
>> employee retirement plans. Therefore there is rarely any "goodwill" or
>> "blue-sky" value in the sale. Just inventory (if it is sellable) and real
>> estate.
>>
>> The bigger picture is what will happen to amateur radio sales companies?
>> The trend is that the smaller, niche companies are either closing down or
>> selling to the two dominant buyers.
>>
>> Is such consolidation good for the future of amateur radio?
>>
>> What happens when MFJ or DXE go up for sale?  Most likely the only
>> potential buyers will be publicly traded companies that have less interest
>> in the customer than the current stake-holders that are active amateur
>> radio operators themselves.  And will there even be a buy when one factors
>> in the demographics?
>>
>> When I took my 13 year old son to the DX Dinner at Dayton this year he was
>> probably the youngest person there. I was probably the second youngest
>> (49).
>>
>> Unless amateur radio quickly and effectively figures out how to connect
>> itself into the STEM and Programming wave I fear that Nathan and I will be
>> the only guys at the DX Dinner someday.
>>
>> At least he and I will have darn good antennas :)
>>
>> 73, Scott W3TX
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/7/16 11:24 AM, "Alan NV8A" <nv8a@charter.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been surprised at the number of local businesses that are simply
>>> shut down when the owner decides to retire: they have a "going out of
>>> business sale," and that's it. I would have expected them to sell the
>>> business -- with its "good will" -- as a going concern.
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Alan NV8A
>>>
>>>
>>> On 07/07/2016 07:21 AM, Chuck Gooden wrote:
>>>> I would of expected that, the company would be up for sale to someone
>>>> that would be interested in keeping ham radio alive.  So I am waiting
>>>> until I see an official notice.
>>>>
>>>> Chuck Gooden N9QBT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/6/2016 4:57 PM, K7LXC--- via TowerTalk wrote:
>>>>> I just got an email from the sales manager of AES  that they're
>>>>> closing the
>>>>> doors at the end of the month. Hard to believe since  they used to be
>>>>> one
>>>>> of two 800 pound gorillas in the ham market. Apparently  stuff happens.
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> TowerTalk mailing list
>>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
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