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[TowerTalk] Re: Interlace of 75/40M on 4" boom

To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Re: Interlace of 75/40M on 4" boom
From: force12@interserv.com (force12@interserv.com)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 07:12:54 -0700 (PDT)
Good morning, Dan.

Yes, the Create 80/75 mtr elements can be modeled with some care for the 
capacity hats. The KLM linear loaded 40 mtr elements are probably not possible. 
Having interlaced many different types of elements, perhaps I can offer a 
suggestion or two.

Normally, the elements that will be most negatively affected are the high 
frequency ones. It is possible to do some informative tests using garden 
variety 
equipment. If you have a sensitive antenna mesuring device, such as a good 
noise 
bridge, add a VU meter output (you might need a small amplifier) and it will be 
possible to "see" the influence of the adjacent lower frequency element(s). 
This 
was an idea from the late Ron Ciappari, N6AUV, back in about 1983 and we did a 
lot of interesting projects using it.

For example, set up a 40 mtr element at some workable height, in the clear (I 
use about 8' for this type of basic test) and very carefully measure its 
resonant frequency, which will be zero noise on the bridge and no indication on 
the VU meter. It is important to maintain the test environment, so be sure 
there 
is nothing moving around, including yourself. We mark spots on the ground for 
each person to stand. You can test the sensitivity of the setup by moving close 
to the element and watching the meter, or listening to the noise. One reason 
for 
using a VU meter is it will move before noise is audible. It will also be 
interesting to move your hand along the element and note where your body 
capacitance has the most affect. Now that you have the 40 mtr element in place, 
carefully move an 80/75 element into proximity to it. It is not necessary to 
use 
a boom, but it might be the easiest. You can start with it close enough to 
probably cause interaction and then move it away, or far enough away to not 
have 
any and move it closer until there is interaction. Each time you move the 
80/75, 
it is necessary to move (you and assistants) to your designated spots to 
maintain the test area and then read the meter.

Some results that might be of interest are that the KLM can co-exist (in round 
numbers) within 4' of a full size 20 mtr element, which led to my first large 
20/40, a 5 element 20 and 3el 40 using a HyGain 205B as the core, which Ron and 
I built shortly after our first tests. Since that time, I have built many 
versions of 20/40's. We have used this knowledge at Force 12 and have also 
added 
80/40 interlaced antennas. The one I have used for almost 5 years uses 2 
elements on 40 (similar in length to the KLM) and 2 elements on 80/75 (68' 
long), all being linear loaded. At a horizontal spacing of 4'11", the 80 mtr 
elements detune the 40's by 10 kHz, which is a good guide to making a useful 
antenna. One word of caution: I always will build the higher frequency antenna 
completely and test it before adding the lower frequency elements - just to 
make 
sure! I often will also build the lower frequency antenna separately, too - 
just 
to make sure - then make the composite product. For a "one-off" design project, 
you might need to go to that effort, as the initial proximity measurements have 
been tracked the final product in most cases.

The only exception I can recall is where I was working on interlacing 30 mtr 
elements (shortened) and they did not appear to disturb anything, but in actual 
practice, they did. Apparently, the feedpoint was not changed by the 30 mtr 
elements. After realizing the situation, I used a different design on the 30 
mtr 
element. This is similar to adding a 15 mtr Yagi above a 20 and not seeing any 
change in the 15 mtr VSWR curve; however, upon using it, the F/B will have gone 
down the tubes!



Have a great day & 73,
                Tom Schiller, N6BT
                President, Force 12, Inc.
                        Amateur Antennas, Commercial Towers & Antennas
                P.O. Box 1349 Paso Robles, CA  93447
                Phone: 805.227.1680   FAX 805.227.1684
                Web Site: http://www.QTH.com/force12






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