From:
Fred Hopengarten K1VR 781/259-0088
Six Willarch Road
Lincoln, MA 01773-5105
permanent e-mail address: fhopengarten@mba1972.hbs.edu
if sending attachments: k1vr@gis.net
Summary -- Bees, Bee Stings and Tower Climbing
by
Fred Hopengarten K1VR
May 3, 1999
T A RUSSELL wrote:
> I have been stung by ground bees (or sweat bees) in the past
> and while not pleasant, the pain and swelling were no where
> near as intense as these stings. The bees were skinny and
> about 1/2 inch long. Could these be the dreaded African
> Killer Bees? Do they live in the ground? Any suggestions
> on relieving the intense pain? How does one get rid of
> these pests? This happened just before sunset. Besides
> night time, when are they LEAST active? My hunch is that
> these are not the same old garden variety ground bees
> that succumb to a funnel and some "lawn mower juice".
>
> Final question, HOW DOES ONE PROTECT ONESELF
> while cutting the rest of the lawn? I never saw these
> suckers and I was looking! -- Tom N4KG
From: Douglas Bradford <kz5qdx@communique.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 12:31:57 -0500
If they were what I call a greenish yellow, you were introduced to what
we call the "Super Jacket". Same size as Yellow Jacket but
the sting is 10 times more painful. I don't remember
seeing them as a kid but they are common now. They
nest in the ground. The way I get them is Sevin
Dust. Most of the time you get stung before you know
they are there. In the 30 plus years I lived here I've
rot rid of quite a few. I get up early in morning anyway.
I note before where they are going and located the
Entrance(and they have several)Sprinkle the holes
with Sevin Dust and that is the last you will ever see
of them. (The old Gasoline trick does not faze these buggers) Worse than
that, How about Bumble Bee's.
They just lap up all spray, does not faze them at all.
Find the Entrance and It will get them. I found them
going in a wall of my House as I was going up the
Tower one day. I had never seen them before that.
I stopped and got the Sevin ready for next morning
and covered the Entrance with Sevin Dust. The only
thing I ever found that gets them
To keep from getting stung : LUCK they will attack
from 20 to 30 feet from their tunnels.
Tobacco, Adolf's and all the other tricks do not help
much when these rascals sting. It takes about 24 hours
for it to stop Hurting. Wet Tobacco helps best but not
much, 24 hours helps. It hurts worse than all the others
put together. Hence the name "Super Jacket"
Brad KZ5Q
=====
From: JD Delancy <k1zat@dsport.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 19:33:37 -0400 (EDT)
I had a nest of them in my front yard when I first moved in,
got hit five or six times. It was about September, so I found the hole
in the ground, put the running mower over at the lowest setting possible
at full throttle for five minutes. Then poured some hot oil down the
hole. After winter came and assuming that they were in "winter sleep",
dug up the hole, found the nest, wrapped it in a plastic garbage sack and
took it to the dump. They've not return in five years.
> I never saw these suckers and I was looking!
Walk over the yard looking for a hole, about the size of a half dollar.
That will most likely be a nest. Avoid it or destroy it the best you can.
jd
=====
From: w5hvv@aeneas.net (Roderick M. Fitz-Randolph)
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Jul 1998 23:44:45 +0600
Tom, are you certain they were bees.... and not "Yellow Jackets".
A Yellow jacket is similar to a smallish wasp but is yellow and
black striped and they live in holes in the ground similar to
the way you described your situation.
A 5 year old boy was playing in a field next to some apartments
in which some friends of mine lived. They became aware of the
situation when the 5-year old came by their apartment, screaming
at the top of his lungs "Please save me. Please don't let me die".
He was covered by 300 or so Yellow jacket wasps that had attacked
him when he fell into a hole in the ground 3 feet deep and in
which Yellow jackets had made a nest, apparently, for many, many
years. The boy died. My friends could not relate the story to
me and my wife without tears coming to their eyes.
If the hole existed in my yard, I would ignore the EPA and DNR
regulations and place a gallon of gasoline over the hole, back
off and shoot it with a .22 and throw a lit kitchen match on it
and let them try to get out of that. What the flames did not
kill, I believe that the fumes would take care of. The flames
would assure that they couldn't get out of the hole while the
fumes were taking care of them..... those that tried would be
fried.
As for the stings themselves, I've found nothing as quick to stop
the pain as plain old household ammonia. It neutralizes the
formic acid which is what stings so badly. It is virtually
immediate relief. Meat tenderizers and other potions suck by
comparison.
Of course, it is damned easy for me to sit here in my hamshack
and suggest what someone else should do in a miserable situation!
-- Rod, N5HV w5hvv@aeneas.net
=====
From: Stephen Vinson <kd4wiw@ipass.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 01:34:30 -0700
> A 5 year old boy was playing in a field next to some apartments
> in which some friends of mine lived. They became aware of the
> situation when the 5-year old came by their apartment, screaming
> at the top of his lungs "Please save me. Please don't let me die".
> He was covered by 300 or so Yellow jacket wasps that had attacked
> him when he fell into a hole in the ground 3 feet deep and in
> which Yellow jackets had made a nest, apparently, for many, many
> years. The boy died. My friends could not relate the story to
> me and my wife without tears coming to their eyes.
>
Not as uncommon an event as one might think. Farming or rural areas
have this happen almost every year. Thankfully, most are not as tragic.
The young (or small in stature) and elderly are very much in danger in
such attacks.
> If the hole existed in my yard, I would ignore the EPA and DNR
> regulations and place a gallon of gasoline over the hole, back
> off and shoot it with a .22 and throw a lit kitchen match on it
> and let them try to get out of that. What the flames did not
> kill, I believe that the fumes would take care of. The flames
> would assure that they couldn't get out of the hole while the
> fumes were taking care of them..... those that tried would be
> fried.
>
A gallon of gasoline on a warm day in low to no wind can form a flash
over for 50' to 100' in just minutes. A small amount (pint to quart) of
10 to 1 kerosene and gasoline will burn longer and with less
vaporization spread. Not as much lost yard and less danger to exposure.
Be careful and have adequate water supply available. Also a small road
flare can be used from farther away and safer as an ignition source.
Also after flames have died I always powder the ground white with
insecticide. Two commonly used ones are Sevin Dust (spelling) or
Malathion (spelling). What the flames don't get the poison will as they
return to the hive depths.
> As for the stings themselves, I've found nothing as quick to stop
> the pain as plain old household ammonia. It neutralizes the
> formic acid which is what stings so badly. It is virtually
> immediate relief. Meat tenderizers and other potions suck by
> comparison.
>
GREAT treatment ... mope on for at least 5 - 10 minutes and keep skin wet
as possible. You can also use spirits of ammonia and it is easy to carry
on tower climbs. As we all know towers attract bees and wasp more than
they do lightning.
Steve KD4WIW, E-mail: kd4wiw@ipass.net
=====
From: K4SB <k4sb@mindspring.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 04:30:46 -0700
It's a slight variation on the current thread, but I'd like to add
a warning for a practice many of us do.
I usually carry a nice iced Coke in the can when I'm out working in the
yard, or on the antennas. Most of the time, I would set it down in a
convenient place, and go take a sip when necessary or just taking a
break.
(Plot thickens ) Doing so one day and took a nice slug of the drink.
Almost immediately, I felt a quick, but sharp pain in my throat. My
immediate thought was the pop top had fallen into the can, but a look
quickly did away with that theory. So, back to work...except as the
minutes went by, I was aware I was having more and more difficulty
breathing. Took another good slug of Coke to maybe wash down what was
in my throat. No help...By now, about 7 minutes have elapsed. In the
next 2 minutes, it went from difficulty to where I dropped the tools,
got in my truck and in messy work clothes and all, drove to a doctors
office right next to my dentist. Couldn't talk when I managed to stagger
in...Pointed to my throat, and 30 seconds later, the doctor was having
a look.30 seconds after that, I had a good shot of atropine, and was
beginning to be able to breathe again.
Short version, a bee or wasp had crawled into the can, and I swallowed
the sucker, but he gave me a nice parting sting right in the throat as
he passed by. Doctor said that area is especially sensitive because of
all the nearby major blood vessels. The protein in the venom caused an
exaggerated reaction.
I still take my Coke with me, but I also take a wet cloth and cover that
top when I put it down. -- Ed
=====
From: "Guy L. Olinger" <k2av@qsl.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 10:57:56 -0400
> Walk over the yard looking for a hole, about the size of a half
> dollar. That will most likely be a nest. Avoid it or destroy
> it the best you can.
My wife doesn't really like poisons being used around the house, which
keeps up a search for alternative means. The one I like best for wasps,
etc:
I have an old Electrolux that I keep around, almost everything on it is
broke, but it still sucks air. I put a new bag in it, and attach the
hose to several 10' lengths of aluminum 1 1/2 inch tubing and run the
end up to the entrance to the nest. Turn on the vacuum and let it run.
The presence of the noisy thing right at the nest entrance gets the
buggers really peeved. As they zero in for the sting they get sucked in.
Probably moving 50 mph when they whang the back of the bag chamber in
the Electrolux. Just like hitting a windshield.
Every time a wasp is sucked up, it makes a distinctive "thwung" which
you can hear from some distance. It's kinda like doing popcorn in the
microwave...when you haven't heard a pop in some time...it's done.
At that point, *without turning off the suction*, remove the hose and
spray your usual bug-zapper into the opening. Leave it running for a
while. Then remove the bag and dispose. Poison goes with it, not in the
ground. Once the bag weighed 3 pounds.
Referencing some of the other posts, in this method it's best to get
them when they are *most* active. Remember the ones that are out
foraging. They may take an hour or two to get back. Another advantage:
the meanest ones come out first.
May you never be stung (especially by the super wasp).
Guy
=====
From: "George T. Daughters" <gdaught6@leland.Stanford.EDU>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 08:17:08 +0008
> The way I get them is Sevin Dust.
Sevin is a very effective insecticide, especially against good old
Italian honeybees (apis mellifera), the good guys. Please be careful not
to get Sevin all over the place!
George T. Daughters, K6GT
=====
From: TOMK5RC@aol.com
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 11:21:23 EDT
In a message dated 7/20/98 7:02:43 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
k4sb@mindspring.com writes:
<< The protein in the venom caused an exaggerated reaction. >>
Yep, its called anaphylactic shock. All of the blood vessels in your body
constrict, as does your airway. Given a severe enough reaction, you die
shortly thereafter. The best prevention is to take an antihistamine
tablet immediately after being stung. If you are prone to severe reaction
(which changes with age), keep an "Ana-kit" near by. It has antihistamine
tablets, plus two dosages of epinephrine, which will get you to the
hospital emergency room before your body shuts down. My wife (K7AFO) has
severe food allergies, which have the same effect. We usually know how
close we are to an emergency room cuz she has been close to death twice
from small amounts of avocado.
Tom, K5RC/7
=====
From: "John Phillipp" <jphillip@primenet.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:25:57 -0700
I know that this bee thing has been talked to death here, I have been
following the thread with great interest. But I want to mention a few
things that may save some Towertalkian's life.
I am an allergist, and so know a little about anaphylaxis, the major
life-threatening allergic reaction to insect stings.
Several have mentioned taking an antihistamine like Benadryl or whatever.
Don't bother. Anaphylaxis is a severe, RAPID reaction to the sting. Long
before an oral antihistamine could get absorbed and do some good, you
would
have been dead for some time.
Someone mentioned that anaphylaxis causes constriction of the blood
vessels. Wrong. Anaphylaxis causes dilation (opening) of the blood
vessels... this results in a drastic drop in blood pressure and shock. It
does however cause constriction of the bronchial air passages, which
results in wheezing and eventually asphyxia. There are other effects
also,
but those are the main ones.
The emergency treatment of anaphylaxis is an injection of epinephrine,
also
called adrenalin. Epinephrine constricts the blood vessels and increases
the strength of the heartbeat - this is good for the shock. It also
relaxes
the muscles of the bronchial air passages which allows them to open up
and
is good for the wheezing and air hunger.
If you have had a major allergic reaction to an insect sting, you should
discuss it with your health care provider and ask for a prescription for
an
epinephrine self-injector... two trade names that come to mind are the
"Epi-pen" and the "Ana-kit". You have to carry it with you ALL the time.
A
sting can occur at any time, and if you're having an anaphylactic
reaction
you have only minutes to inject yourself.
Once you inject the epinephrine, you should feel much better. You have
bought yourself 30 - 40 minutes to get to the nearest ER and get proper
care. The epinephrine will wear off after a while, and the anaphylactic
reaction may come back. There are longer lasting medicines like
antihistamines and steroids that may be used, but their onset of action
takes too long for them to be useful in the immediate treatment. IV
fluids
are also useful, but hard to carry up the tower.
What I'm trying to get across is, don't stick a few antihistamine tablets
in your pocket, and think you're protected in case of stings. If you are
going to get anaphylaxis - and, fortunately, most of the people who are
stung do not have an anaphylactic reaction - you need an injection of
epinephrine, and you need it right then! -- John N6ZAE
----------
> From: Dale Jones K5MM <ddjones@nas.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Date: Monday, July 20, 1998 8:58 PM
> You are absolutely right. This "bee" thing has ran it's course now,
but it has certainly been one of the most interesting, beneficial, and
helpful
threads in a long time. These things have everything to do with working
on towers, antennas, feedlines, and the like.
>
>Dale K5MM
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> K4SB wrote:
> >It's TowerTalk, and the subject of running into a bunch of hornets,
> >bees,
> >or wasp while in a relatively helpless situation on a tower is
> >appropriate.
> >
> >The remedies suggested have in many cases been completely unknown to
me.
> >Tomorrow while shopping, you can bet some ammonia, Adolph's, and the
> >strongest antihistamine I can buy will be on the list.
> >
> >Not a thread which I would expect to continue much longer, but the
> >suggestions from others serve to teach. I almost died from that damn
> >bee sting..if I had known then what I have learned, I would have
popped
> >a couple of antihistamines before I left for the doctor. I'm lucky he
> >was less than 5 minutes away, that it was not a weekend, and that his
> >diagnosis was rapid and accurate. I would not have lived long enough
to
> >reach an emergency room.
> >
> >Maybe a few now know more effectively how to prevent and treat such.
> >
> >Ed
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