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[TowerTalk] High Antenna Modelling

To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] High Antenna Modelling
From: n4kg@juno.com (n4kg@juno.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 20:00:29 -0600
Don,

You are muddying the waters without providing a basis for
your disbelief.  That takes us into "Black Magic" explainations.
What exactly don't you believe about ground reflection effects?

Antenna radiation patterns over a smooth reflecting surface
and well defined.  

Tom  N4KG

On Sat, 02 Feb 2002 Don Havlicek <n8de@thepoint.net> writes:
> 
> Pete,
> Perhaps my use of the word 'excessive' wasn't quite correct for the
> situation described, but the results of modelling are still 
> IDEALIZED.
> 
> You say you don't agree .. but then you talk about a 'smooth and
> predictable change in the radiation pattern' ... this is IDEALIZED 
> .. 
> 
> As I said:
> 
> This is one of the reasons that we must NOT trust the software to 
> give
> EXACT answers, but rather to give 'idealized' situational results of 
> the
> MATHEMATICS involved [not shouting ... just emphasis].
> 
> Don - N8DE
> 
> 
> 
> Pete Smith wrote:
> > 
> > At 08:54 AM 2/2/02 -0500, Don Havlicek wrote:
> > >>
> > >> A lot higher than 4-6 wavelengths.  I ran a 10m yagi in EZNEC 
> at 200 feet
> > >> above ground, and both the deep nulls and reflection gain were 
> still fully
> > >> evident.
> > >
> > >Obviously, the mathematical functions utilized within the 
> modelling
> > >program do NOT vary when the height above ground [or HAAT] is
> > >'excessive'.
> > >
> > >This is one of the reasons that we must NOT trust the software to 
> give
> > >EXACT answers, but rather to give 'idealized' situational results 
> of the
> > >MATHEMATICS involved [not shouting ... just emphasis].
> > 
> > Sorry, but I don't agree.  This modeling software (NEC-2) would be 
> of no
> > use at all if it hadn't been extensively verified against the 
> real-world
> > situations that it was developed to model.  There are known 
> limitations of
> > this representation of real antennas, but a yagi 4-6 wavelengths 
> above
> > ground at 28 MHz isn't one of them, and certainly isn't 
> "excessive."
> > Varying the height of the model yagi above ground, from less than 
> 1
> > wavelength to more than 6, shows a smooth and predictable change 
> in the
> > radiation pattern that is entirely consistent with experimental 
> data
> > 
> > 73, Pete N4ZR
> 
>
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