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Re: [TowerTalk] LMR600 up to the top of tower ? Respon fr DAVIS RF

To: "<towertalk@contesting.com>" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] LMR600 up to the top of tower ? Respon fr DAVIS RF
From: Robert Harmon <k6uj@pacbell.net>
Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2015 11:21:29 -0700
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Steve,

 After calculating loss when studying the different feed lines, then thinking 
about the connectors, 
 it is painful to then think about introducing loss back in with connectors.  I 
see the insertion loss 
 is extremely small with the connectors, so no worries.  
I am definitely going with BuryFlex for the rotator loop and up to the ant 
connections.  The run is fairly
short and I found the loss is not that much different compared to LMR400 
especially for a short run like this. 

Now to decide feed line to the tower.  I have some good options to consider 
thanks to you and and 
the other posts.  I wont be burying the feed to the tower and Cellflex looks 
attractive.  Nice low loss, comparable to 
Heliax,  and more flexible than Heliax I understand.   

Thanks for the info Steve, much appreciated.

73,
Bob
K6UJ



 



> On Aug 2, 2015, at 9:43 AM, Stephen Davis <sdavis@davisrf.com> wrote:
> 
> John and Charlie are correct, no need, and physically impractical, to be 
> running one type of coax all the way to top and or to antenna.  Noted was 
> Bury-Flex ™ . At HF & VHF , the attenuation difference is minimal, LMR400 vs. 
> Bury-Flex ™  (I'm partial to Bury-Flex ™ ….maybe say I'm biased because I 
> designed it).  Although I don't know the length you have to run, thus the 
> actual attenuation difference. I can provide that to you for any choice of 
> cable you want to analyze, just need freqcy range of the application and 
> length.   Bury-Flex ™ can be used as a rotor loop, just add about 20% more 
> length than you would for an RG-213 or similar loop.   LMR 400 UF for a loop: 
>  NO,  the outer jacket is TPR, won't last as long as Bury-Flex ™  or  9913F7. 
>     We can equip you with any coax you want.  1/2" Heliax you can direct bury 
> (same for LMR-600,  the 600 also comes in a DB (direct bury)  but you will be 
> OK using their std. 600, it has exactly the same outer jacket PE, the DB just 
> has the "Grease" which is only there to fill any knick in the outer jacket if 
> you just happen to drive a stake, or roto till (yikes, in the area of your 
> cherished buried cable  HI) in errant fashion.
> The grease will also act as a thermal barrier against wide swing temperature 
> inversion… but that usually is only an issue where moisture is already inside 
> and the temp drops a lot.  Or you take the reel of cable from your 70 deg F  
> , into cold outdoor temps.
> 
>  Grounding the shields:  we have some not so expensive grounding kits which 
> you just cut away the out coax insuation, clamp it on and the other end of 
> the grounding wire that comes with it
> can be clamped to tower leg.  Yes, it is real good idea to ground at top and 
> bottom, but that theory usually is associated with using an inline surge 
> protector, Polyp[haswer, at top and bottom. Without the surge protector, the 
> only thing you are really giving a ground path for is the outer shield 
> conductor vs. the center conductor would also be protected with a Polyphaser 
> device.
> 
> Lastly, don't worry about putting connectors into the coax feed line, i.e.  
> bottom and top of tower, at the entrance panel to your house or shack, and 
> a transition at the drip loop.  So many hams worry about insertion loss of 
> connectors and adaptors.  THe max insertion loss of a good commercial grade 
> connector or adaptor is only .200 dB
> at the MUF of the connector.  UHF females and males (SO 239 and PL 259 )  are 
> MUF 300 MHz.  The X to Y is linear so  if you are operating at 30 MHz, you 
> insertion loss would be 
> 30/300 =  .10  X  .200 at MUF =  .02 dB per connector or adaptor. 
> 
> 73 Steve, K1PEK   DAVIS RF Co.            
> 
> 
> On Aug 2, 2015, at 9:42 AM, towertalk-request@contesting.com wrote:
> 
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>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Re: LMR600 up to the top of tower ? (Charlie Gallo)
>>  2. Re: LMR600 up to the top of tower ? (Steve Sacco NN4X)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2015 22:02:45 -0400
>> From: Charlie Gallo <Charlie@TheGallos.com>
>> To: john@kk9a.com
>> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] LMR600 up to the top of tower ?
>> Message-ID: <1210224415.20150801220245@TheGallos.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/1/2015 john@kk9a.com wrote:
>> 
>>> I would never run one piece of coax underground that far and then up the
>>> tower, especially with a crank-up.  The tower piece will likely get damaged
>>> at some point.  LMR600 is not that flexible and certainly would not be good
>>> for your rotator loop.  I would direct bury large Heliax underground and
>>> then use something flexible and tough (like Belden 8267) on the crank-up
>>> tower.
>> 
>>> John KK9A
>> 
>> Yep  -  Remember,  your coax shield should be tied to the tower at the
>> bottom AND the top.  (Gee,  yes  you can carefully strip the outer jacket 
>> and bond,
>> but  easiest way is something like a PL-259 bulkhead connector mounted
>> to the tower (or polyphasor or similar - at least at the bottom)
>> 
>> You  can  easily  transition from one type of coax to another at these
>> points - tun the 600 to the bottom of the tower, and then buryflex (or
>> say  LMR400)  up, and then transition to something flexible at the top
>> ground  point.  All done, simple, and you are on your way to the start
>> of proper grounding too
>> -- 
>> 73 de KG2V - Charles Gallo
>> Quality Custom Machine-shop work for the radio amateur (sm)
>> 
>> www.baysidephoto.com
>> www.thegallos.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
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