The ARRL split the categories for the contest to Analog and Mixed (Digital
and Analog)
I was very disappointed that they didn't create a Digital Only category.
-Scott AA5AM
On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 9:59 PM Ed Kucharski via VHFcontesting <
vhfcontesting@contesting.com> wrote:
> Yep, agree with Terry and the 10m contest analogy.
> I've been thinking and saying similar for years now.
>
> Addition of 2 new sub-categories. The ARRL 10 Meter Contest is an example
> of a successful split mode contest (SSB Only, CW Only and Mixed-Mode
> categories). A similar model can be applied to ARRL VHF contests.
> 1. "Digital” (one QSO with the same station on the same band using any
> recognized Digital mode ONLY).
> 2. "Mixed-Mode” (one QSO with the same station on the same band using
> either Phone/CW and Digital). ie. Mixed-Mode entrants may contact stations
> for contest credit once on Phone/CW and once on Digital.
> (The "Analog” sub-category remains the same - one QSO on the same band
> with the same station on Phone or CW ONLY).
>
> > On 01/13/2025 9:09 PM EST Terry Price <terry@directivesystems.com
> mailto:terry@directivesystems.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > FT8 has its' place, I can work distant stations that are far less
> > equipped that I could on cw and some operators don't operate cw so it's
> not
> > in anyones' best interest to penalize digital modes. It's just that they
> > aren't very friendly for passing and they are slower than 2304 on a
> Sunday
> > afternoon when there is a football game on !! Getting folks to move to
> FT4
> > is as hard as getting them to go to SSB. With all the other contests
> going
> > on, splitting weekends doesn't make sense. Keep the points the same, just
> > make it like the 10m contest where you can work both analog and digital.
> I
> > still think making the contest 48 hrs and half analog and half digital
> has
> > huge advantages. Get all the passing and easier Q's on analog and the
> > squeakers on digital.
> >
> > Terry Price - W8ZN
> > Directive Systems and Engineering
> > 703-754-3876
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 12:06 PM stanka1ze--- via NEWSVHF <
> > newsvhf@mailman.qth.net mailto:newsvhf@mailman.qth.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > My thought was to encourage dx stations to continue to work a dx grid
> > > even if he has already logged it. Example: a station in EM96 works a
> > > station in FN20 on digital. Without points for EM96 station he would
> have
> > > no incentive to work any other FN20 stations on digital.
> > > Question: if you work a station on digital would you be able to scrap
> the
> > > QSO and work him for a higher point value mode like ssb or cw?
> > > On Monday, January 13, 2025 at 11:50:13 AM EST, Fred Stefanik <
> > > n1dpmfred@gmail.com mailto:n1dpmfred@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > But distance doesn't discourage using digital for non DX contacts
> > > Stan....73Fred
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 11:39 AM stanka1ze@aol.com mailto:
> stanka1ze@aol.com <stanka1ze@aol.com mailto:stanka1ze@aol.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Interesting Fred, using digital for working dx and only receiving
> minimal
> > > points discourages dx stations from working others once they have
> logged
> > > the grid. How about including a distance incentive?
> > > Stan
> > > On Monday, January 13, 2025 at 10:24:11 AM EST, Fred Stefanik <
> > > n1dpmfred@gmail.com mailto:n1dpmfred@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Greg and all,
> > >
> > > I would like to propose a modification to what you've proposed....
> > > The prime usefulness for digital modes (FT8, MSK144, JT65, Q65) is the
> > > ability to pull weak signals from the noise better than could be done
> > > without the aid of a PC and software. This makes these modes
> "preferred"
> > > for DX QSO's. The other thing it does as far as FT8 and MSK144 are
> > > concerned is it puts all the activity on one frequency "channel" all
> at the
> > > same time so you know where these stations will be. I feel this is a
> > > bigger advantage than the benefits of the digital mode itself. In
> analog
> > > we now have the ability to use sites such as ON4KST, N0UK EME, and Ping
> > > Jockey to make skeds with stations helping to locate them for QSO's.
> These
> > > too could be used for digital QSO's also. The "abuse" that happens with
> > > the digital modes (primarily FT8) and what has caused all this
> commotion is
> > > that a large number of stations seem to gravitate to the FT8
> frequencies on
> > > 6 and 2 meters as a PRIMARY means of gathering QSO's both near and far.
> > > This I feel is because of the "all the fish in one barrel" phenomenon.
> In
> > > fact on 6 meters, for regular non contest operation the band could be
> wide
> > > open with lots of strong signals on 50.313 and there is NOBODY down on
> > > 50.125 plus on SSB. It has COMPLETELY taken over 6 meters! So I think
> > > from a VHF / UHF contest perspective we need to allow the use of these
> > > digital modes, but adjust the scoring to skew it so that this isn't the
> > > place to be to work a large number of stations that are (for lack of
> better
> > > terms) "locals", but to use the modes as intended to stretch the
> distance
> > > of DX QSO's. In a contest when you work those DX stations it is a huge
> > > benefit to the score as this is the way to substantially increase your
> grid
> > > / multiplier count thereby tremendously increasing your score for
> working
> > > that DX. This is what I feel the "incentive" should be for using the
> > > digital modes and not just for making QSO's . To accomplish this my
> > > initial proposal that I had floated out there was to leave all the
> scoring
> > > as is by band for points for analog QSO's and keep the multipliers
> (grids)
> > > as is also for all QSO's but to make digital mode QSO's worth zero
> points.
> > > This means that you need to use the digital modes to "hunt new grids /
> > > multipliers" making this activity back to what these modes were
> intended to
> > > be used for....DX QSO's. Now I proposed the zero points for digital
> QSO's
> > > but it could be something like 1 for digital, 5 for SSB, 10 for CW, but
> > > then what do you do with the points for going higher in frequency? So
> that
> > > would have to be worked out. Maybe you make an overall multiplier for
> the
> > > score based on the number of bands you have submitted QSO's on??? I
> don't
> > > know..... But clearly the goal needs to be to use the modes we have at
> our
> > > disposal for making QSO's and activating the bands. Some people say
> this
> > > is the primary goal. I don't think it is! I think that it is secondary
> to
> > > making our small VHF / UHF community happy and enthusiastic about
> wanting
> > > to get on and use the bands we have and operate in these contests as
> that's
> > > when there's a concentration of activity. If we have a community that
> does
> > > not like the circumstances and therefor does not get on in these
> contests
> > > then guess what ....we are heading VHF UHF contesting down a path of
> > > extinction!
> > > 73
> > > Fred
> > > K1FMS
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jan 13, 2025 at 8:40 AM Greg Troxel <gdt@lexort.com mailto:
> gdt@lexort.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I haven't done VHF contesting seriously for years; I used to be one
> of
> > > > the W1XM operators in the mid/late 80s and early 90s. I am very
> > > > sympathetic to the problem of everything turning into FTx.
> > > >
> > > > This happens at Field Day, too. Either because of my club's culture,
> or
> > > > the rules, we end up with a CW station, SSB station, and digital
> > > > station. Long ago the digital station was probably RTTY, and now it's
> > > > pretty much FT4. This is an ok outcome. (There's a separate issue,
> > > > which is that people use the Internet for time sync, and I think all
> use
> > > > of Internet should be banned at FD because in theory it's an
> emergency
> > > > preparedness exercise.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My idea for VHF contests is to allow one contact per
> band/mode/station,
> > > > so you could work someone on SSB, CW, and a digital mode. (Yes, I
> know
> > > > CW is technically digital, but I mean "a computer mode.) Then, it's
> > > > just a question of setting point values to encourage activity. I
> would
> > > > suggest
> > > >
> > > > 1 FTx
> > > > 5 SSB
> > > > 10 CW
> > > >
> > > > This aligns ssb/cw with FD's points, I think (I don't really pay
> > > > attention to the contest part; for me it's emergency preparedness and
> > > > cookout). But the ssb/cw mix isn't that important; it's setting the
> > > > rules so that people who operating only FTx leave massive numbers of
> > > > points on the table.
> > > >
> > > > 73 de n1dam
> > > > ______________________________________________________________
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