After doing some more research - at least when using PTT in
CW - the problem is not as described below. There is still
a timing issue but it may not be in the timing with WinKey.
I will be sending some annotated WinKey logs to W5XD as soon
as I can add all the "user did this" and "output was that"
information.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
> -----Original Message-----
> From: microHAM@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:microHAM@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV
> Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 10:51 PM
> To: 'Richard L. King'; writelog@contesting.com; w5xd@writelog.com
> Cc: ve3gsi@sympatico.ca; microHAM@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [microHAM] RE: SO2R with Writelog
>
>
>
> Richard,
>
> I made some time to do some very brief testing this evening ...
>
> Looking at the WinKey command channel in Router, I do in fact see
> a WinKey "Busy" status report immediately after sending the "insert"
> message on the second radio. This is followed almost immediately
> by a WinKey "not busy" status report and transmit focus switches
> back to the "run" radio.
>
> I have no (easy) way to record time stamped traces of the WinKey
> command channel, the MK2R+ "protocol" commands and the actual
> PTT closures in separate files for comparison. However, I am
> relatively convinced that this issue and the "short dah and
> PTT on focus switching" are related to the WinKey status lag.
>
> If WinKey is generating a CW element, the element (dit or dah)
> must finish and any PTT Tail must time out before WinKey will
> release PTT and return a "Not Busy" status message. Here is
> the timing data:
>
> 1) Winkey's "fixed" PTT Tail is one word space plus PTT tail.
> One word space is seven dits long: 135/WPM msec. Assuming
> a minimum speed of 5 WPM, the tail is 27 + (PTT tail)
> 2) If WinKey is generating a dah when it receives a command
> to end a message (to change focus), it could take up to
> three dit lengths before the dah is finished. At 5 WPM
> that could be almost 12 msec.
> 3) WriteLog appears to set WinKey to a fixed 260 msec tail
> (other software use different tail lengths - some leave
> it user configurable).
>
> The total is 27 + 12 + 260 = 299 msec.
>
> The WinKey status reports can be delayed by up to 50 msec
> by other activity on the USB - depending on other devices,
> etc.
>
> Thus, for WriteLog when changing focus or doing an "insert"
> message on the "other" radio - assuming PTT in CW - the logic
> should be:
>
> 1) send <escape> to end current message
> 2) wait 300 msec (400 msec might be better) for everything
> to finish assuming minimum CW speed
> 3) Change transmit focus
> 4) send next message on "new" radio.
>
> The switching delay can be reduced if QSK operation is chosen
> but a small minimum delay is still necessary to allow for
> completion of the current CW element and receipt of the "Not
> Busy" status report from WinKey. A minimum delay of 50 to
> 75 msec is probably advisable.
>
> As a first cut at a resolution to the issue that effects several
> programs, I would recommend that software authors implement a fixed
> 75 msec delay between the termination of a message (either normal
> termination or an <escape>) and issuing a "change transmit focus"
> command in QSK operation and a 400 msec (or "PTT Tail" plus 150
> msec) delay when using WinKey PTT. I think modern compilers
> support a non-blocking wait command that will allow other functions
> (rig polling, telnet, etc.) to continue during the wait period.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Richard L. King [mailto:k5na@ecpi.com]
> > Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:02 PM
> > To: Joe Subich, W4TV; writelog@contesting.com
> > Cc: ve3gsi@sympatico.ca; microHAM@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE:SO2R with Writelog
> >
> >
> > Hi Joe.
> >
> > I think you are right that this is a Writelog timing issue
> > with the MK2R+.
> >
> > Here is another interesting fact that I just discovered.
> >
> > If I am CQing on radio one and wait until the pause before
> hitting F4
> > on the second radio, it works.
> >
> > If I am CQing on radio one and hit F4 on the second radio
> before the
> > CQ has completed, it fails.
> >
> > Also, dueling CQs basically works. But if you enter a call and hit
> > the INSERT key to send the exchange before the other radio has
> > stopped CQing, the exchange is sent to the wrong radio. If you wait
> > until the pause after the other radio's CQ, then the
> exchange is sent
> > to the correct radio.
> >
> > I suspect I will have to use PC Generates for my CW sending this
> > coming weekend in the ARRL DX CW. But I am not making much progress
> > figuring out why I now have choppy CW since a couple of months ago.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone who has been trying to help me with this.
> >
> > Richard - K5NA
> >
> >
> >
> > At 16:45 2/11/2008, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> >
> > >Richard,
> > >
> > >VE3GSI also reports the same problem with dueling CQs. I think
> > >it is a WriteLog issue involving WinKey but I have not had time
> > >to investigate. My guess is that it's an issue with the timing
> > >of commands to WinKey, responses from WinKey and switching radios.
> > >The symptoms also seem to appear (if I recall previous comments)
> > >with WinKey and LPT control (traditional SO2R). My suspicion is
> > >that the WinKey "Not Busy" message from the first radio (after the
> > >CQ message is aborted) is being received just after transmit focus
> > >has switched to the second radio. WriteLog assumes that this means
> > >the insert message (e.g., K5NA) has completed, returns to the first
> > >radio and generates the message (F1 instead of F4) there followed
> > >by the timed CQ.
> > >
> > >So far this is only a SWAG but switching transmit focus before
> > >receiving the "Not Busy" status from WinKey is also involved in
> > >causing a short DAH on the second radio if the user switches
> > >radios (up/down arrow) while a message is in progress.
> > >
> > >73,
> > >
> > > ... Joe Subich, W4TV
> > > microHAM America
> > > http://www.microHAM-USA.com
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/microHAM
> > > support@microham.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: writelog-bounces@contesting.com
> > > > [mailto:writelog-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> > Richard L. King
> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:03 PM
> > > > To: writelog@contesting.com
> > > > Subject: [WriteLog] SO2R with Writelog
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I need some help again to make something work on my MK2R+ with
> > > > Writelog. I had this problem a year ago, but was told
> > that it should
> > > > work when Writelog implements support for the MK2R.
> > > >
> > > > Now I am running Writelog 10.65C that should have
> support for the
> > > > MK2R but the problem is still there. Here is what happens.
> > > >
> > > > I have a CQ TEST in F1.
> > > >
> > > > I have "K5NA" in F4.
> > > >
> > > > I am running in SO2R mode and using auto repeat (3
> > seconds) and auto
> > > > resume to send the F1 CQ on radio one.
> > > >
> > > > The headphones are switching and I am listening on
> radio two when
> > > > transmitting on radio one.
> > > >
> > > > I use the "shift arrow" key to move the keyboard focus
> > from radio one
> > > > to radio two. Radio one continues to call CQ with the
> > transmit focus
> > > > still there.
> > > >
> > > > I decide to drop my call in on radio two using the F4 key.
> > > >
> > > > This is where things go wrong.
> > > >
> > > > When I hit F4, radio one only stops for an instant. The
> > PTT switches
> > > > to radio two and then immediately back to radio one.
> > Nothing is sent
> > > > on radio two even though the PTT was made briefly.
> > > >
> > > > Radio one has immediately started CQing again. When that
> > CQ completes
> > > > there is no pause and another CQ starts immediately.
> > Then, finally,
> > > > after the second CQ the 3 second delay will be injected
> > between CQs
> > > > again. Then it starts CQing normally with the 3 second delay
> > > > between CQs again.
> > > >
> > > > With the auto CQ and auto resume on, I cannot send on the second
> > > > radio by moving the keyboard focus there.
> > > >
> > > > Is there something that I have missed in the Router or
> > Writelog that
> > > > makes this work correctly? I have been playing with settings and
> > > > reading material and I can't get any ideas.
> > > >
> > > > I am cross posting this to Microham in case it is a MK2R or
> > > > Router issue.
> > > >
> > > > 73, Richard - K5NA
> > > >
> >
>
>
>
>
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