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1. Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: "Luis Mansutti IV3PRK" <luisprk@tin.it>; Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 18:55:59 +0200; Hi Topbanders, I read the very fine presentation by Eric Scace, K3NA, at 2009 Dayton Antenna Forum on a new Rx Loop Array. http://www.kkn.net/dayton2009/dayton-2009-antenna-forum.html I like to test; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00048.html (6,706 bytes)
2. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: Eric Scace K3NA <eric@k3na.org>; Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 19:16:14 -0400; I'll be glad to answer question, Luis. In general the design goal for the matching network was to achieve an extremely low SWR (for 75 ohm cable). An excellent match means the feedline can be used as; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00049.html (9,472 bytes)
3. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: Eric Scace K3NA <eric@k3na.org>; Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 21:51:01 -0400; Hi Luis -- I tried to answer your questions inter-linea. -- Eric on 2010 Jun 20 16:04 Luis Mansutti IV3PRK said the following: I dug back into my lab notebooks for 2007 Jun 26. For 160m I built and m; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00051.html (14,933 bytes)
4. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>; Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 19:12:57 -0700; I built a loop the same size as in the forum paper and the bandwidth was something like 10% of what was shown. I used critical coupling (ie a conjugate match). In order to cover the whole 160 meter b; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00052.html (8,964 bytes)
5. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>; Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 07:38:20 -0700; I'm still confused. The loop has an unloaded Q of about 100. Somehow, this is "matched" to Zo with a 10% bandwidth. Where is the lossy element if not R1. Could it be core loss in the MPP core? Why co; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00053.html (8,389 bytes)
6. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: "Luis Mansutti IV3PRK" <luisprk@tin.it>; Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 18:22:43 +0200; Hi Rick, many thanks for your comments. I'm going to read also your article on NCJ Sep/Oct 2009: there is always something to learn from you. Eric very kindly provided a lot of details, but I underst; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00054.html (8,321 bytes)
7. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: "Rick Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>; Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:38:59 -0700; The lumped element delays shown on my web site are virtually identical to coax delay lines when used within the recommended bandwidth. They use additional elements to get flat delay. You might have b; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00055.html (12,014 bytes)
8. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: Eric Scace K3NA <eric@k3na.org>; Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 13:28:56 -0400; I thought about lumped components for the delays. I did not have time to evaluate a lumped-component system for maintaining the desired phasing over the entire band. Did you look into this aspect, Ri; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00056.html (10,959 bytes)
9. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: Greg - ZL3IX <zl3ix@inet.net.nz>; Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 05:56:57 +1200; Hi Eric, I am interested in a statement in your paper, "Beverages don't work over high(ly) conductive earth" By "not work", do you mean * Low RDF? * Pattern skewing? * Low output? I have a set of rem; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00057.html (8,164 bytes)
10. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: Eric Scace K3NA <eric@k3na.org>; Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 16:00:40 -0400; on 2010 Jun 21 10:38 Richard (Rick) Karlquist said the following: In the mathematical model of the matching network R1 was needed. In the as-build prototype, it was not. I suspect the core loss in th; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00058.html (9,046 bytes)
11. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: <rfoxwor1@tampabay.rr.com>; Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 17:12:14 -0400; This may be very simplified. I am far from a Beverage expert, but it was explained to me once that the Bev works well over poorly conducting soil because the wavefront is no longer just vertically or; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00059.html (9,196 bytes)
12. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: "Richard (Rick) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>; Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 08:23:36 -0700; My Sacramento delta QTH is highly conductive, at least according to the FCC map, and I do have Beverages, but the length is limited to less than 500 feet due to high losses, as verified by measuring; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00061.html (8,726 bytes)
13. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: k3bu@optimum.net; Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 17:02:02 +0000 (GMT); That is generally true, those who tried Beverages over good ground are not very pleased, probably due to the low signal levels. Vic, W1WCR (?) in his Wave Antenna Handbook describes Wave Antenna that; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00062.html (10,853 bytes)
14. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: Nick Hall-Patch <nhp@ieee.org>; Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 12:16:50 -0700; Consider me to also not be an expert either in Beverage antenna theory, or in wave propagation. I wonder however whether some of the idea that the Beverage works best over poor ground dates back to t; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00063.html (10,140 bytes)
15. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: "Milt, N5IA" <n5ia@zia-connection.com>; Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2010 19:59:39 -0700; In the most simple explanation of the theory of operation of the Beverage antenna you must understand that the single wire above (or on) the ground is 1/2 of an unbalanced transmission line. The eart; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00064.html (13,285 bytes)
16. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: Nick Hall-Patch <nhp@ieee.org>; Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 05:23:43 +0000; Thanks. Too many years ago, near Tofino, BC, it was noted that a 1500' wire running perpendicular to the shore (and even with several hundred feet over salt water, leading to an offshore island and p; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00065.html (10,471 bytes)
17. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: Greg - ZL3IX <zl3ix@inet.net.nz>; Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:06:03 +1200; Thanks for all the comments on this. Reading between the lines, I think I can assume the following. A Beverage over good ground will still work as well as over poor ground, *PROVIDED* that the ground; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00066.html (9,359 bytes)
18. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: Herb Schoenbohm <herbs@vitelcom.net>; Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 06:56:58 -0400; Very interesting especially since all my Beverages are directly adjacent to a huge Salt Pond some terminating about 500 feet away. Under each Beverage the water table (of brackish water) is only abou; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00068.html (15,687 bytes)
19. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: W2PM <w2pm@aol.com>; Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 08:46:19 -0400; I would only wonder how well the rear null would actually perform in that scenario. Certainly putting the null to the local noise is a good thing, and the opposite would be absurd, but typically beve; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00069.html (15,229 bytes)
20. Re: Topband: K3NA Loop Array (score: 1): Author: Gedking@aol.com; Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2010 09:16:07 EDT; A beverage is nothing but a Long wire Ant, the more wavelengths the more the lobes are off the ends and the higher the gain the terminating resister cancels out the rear lobes, if you take four long; /archives//html/Topband/2010-06/msg00070.html (8,033 bytes)

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