On 02/06/2021 22:43, David Gilbert wrote:
The same argument could be made for ANY remote operation,
Yes, that's my point.
and you are most definitely swimming upstream (and mostly alone) on that.
It's definitely a struggle :-)
And in spite of the countless times you have mercilessly flogged this
horse,
The horse is alive and kicking.
what you perpetually are either unable to understand or unwilling to
accept is that remote operations like this do not supplant any portion
of the traditional amateur radio RF link.
That argument cuts both ways. What you perpetually are either unable or
unwilling to accept is that internet users are always internet users,
regardless of what "magic" happens at the far end of the internet
communications link.
The internet portion is spliced in series with every bit of the usual
RF chain.
Yes, that is hybrid communications, with interdependent internet and
ham-band RF communications.
> The RF isn't being replaced or bypassed
I've not suggested that.
> (if anything, it is being burdened by the extra links).
If dependence on the extra links makes things harder, then the solution
is obvious.
> The requirement for a full RF portion makes it completely different
than other internet communications,
It doesn't. Ask anyone who doesn't have an axe to grind to describe
what's happening. They'll say "you're on the internet".
> and every contest I'm aware of declares the relevant QTH to be at the
source of the RF ... not the operating position.
And for every QSO we have, I'm in contact with you. People communicate
with one another. To argue that QSOs take place between stations is
plain wrong (autonomous data modes excepted). Again, it is HOW we
choose to contact one another that identifies us as hams. When you're
on the internet, you're an internet user - no different to other
internet users with worldwide communications at their fingertips.
Even the ability for someone living on the west coast to operate from
the east coast via a remote link is no different than if that person
paid a bunch of money for a plane ticket to guest op at that same
station ... except that the remote link makes it potentially cheaper
and more accessible to more people.
Remote stations are restricted-access repeaters with the necessary
internet gateways for both control and communications. To accept
repeater QSOs on exactly the same terms as RF-all-the-way QSOs for
contesting and DX awards makes no sense.
M/M Distributed should go. If, however, MMD is seen as "progress", let
them compete only with one another - and similarly for repeater entries.
It can take time, money, commitment, and restraint to keep the internet
out of ham radio.
73,
Paul EI5DI
__________________________
On 02/06/2021 22:43, David Gilbert wrote:
Paul,
The same argument could be made for ANY remote operation, and you are
most definitely swimming upstream (and mostly alone) on that.
And in spite of the countless times you have mercilessly flogged this
horse, what you perpetually are either unable to understand or unwilling
to accept is that remote operations like this do not supplant any
portion of the traditional amateur radio RF link. The internet portion
is spliced in series with every bit of the usual RF chain. The RF isn't
being replaced or bypassed (if anything, it is being burdened by the
extra links). The requirement for a full RF portion makes it completely
different than other internet communications, and every contest I'm
aware of declares the relevant QTH to be at the source of the RF ... not
the operating position.
Even the ability for someone living on the west coast to operate from
the east coast via a remote link is no different than if that person
paid a bunch of money for a plane ticket to guest op at that same
station ... except that the remote link makes it potentially cheaper and
more accessible to more people.
Dave AB7E
On 6/2/2021 10:36 AM, Paul O'Kane wrote:
On 02/06/2021 17:36, Igor Sokolov wrote:
<snip>
It involves co-operation, tactics, strategy planning and amplifies
the pleasure of contesting by the number of participating operators.
This ignores the elephant in the room. M/M Distributed is dependent
on, and cannot exist without, non ham-radio means of communication.
Many say this doesn't matter. However, if how we choose to contact
one another doesn't matter, then we are no different to other
internet users.
Call it what you like, but don't call it what it's not. I say M/M
Distributed should go.
73,
Paul EI5DI
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