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Topband: W8JI verticals proximity to fence

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Subject: Topband: W8JI verticals proximity to fence
From: "Lee K7TJR" <k7tjr@msn.com>
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 21:19:41 -0700
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
     Charlie, you did not mention what kind of an array you were planning. The 
answer would be very different with a simple cardioid array or 4-square as 
compared to a wide spaced BSEF type array. You also did not mention the length 
of the wire fence and if it was insulated and possibly close to some resonance 
near the operating frequency. 
    The higher the RDF of an array which most times comes right along with 
medium to high Front to back, the more sensitive the array will be to nearby 
objects. I did some extensive testing last year in an effort to quantify this 
very question. Frankly there are too many variables to provide an answer much 
more than a guess. What I have found is that if you can simulate the nearby 
wires or even objects in Eznec and you can get a feel for your particular 
situation. You might also consider your transmit antenna as a source of 
unwanted coupling as well. One of my best high performance arrays can "see" 
affects from my TX vertical when modeled at over 700 feet away. It has to be 
detuned during RX. 
     I think you can still download W8JIs rxvrhat eznec 20 foot element model 
on his site. I also think to get a reasonable answer to your question you would 
have to model the entire array however and then place objects such as fence 
wires and possibly use a slightly elevated radial near one element to simulate 
the buried element. Buried radials do couple to other objects in RX arrays.
    Aside from all that my gut reaction from all my work last year is that if 
you are building the 8 element circle array you are going to see a significant 
problem and it is going to come from the nearby radial coupling and likely not 
the top loading wire unless it is very parallel to the fence. If the fence is 
grounded every few feet I think the affect will be much less and will then 
manifest itself as a slight skewing of the pattern and slight reduction of RDF 
due to some extra signal coupling and  signal phase shifting in the close 
elements received signal. Personally I would skew any radials away from or at 
least perpendicular to the fence on that nearby element. 
    I would really encourage you to try to model this situation. I finally 
modeled all the power lines, irrigation pipes, telephone wires, buildings, and 
etc for my RX situation. I was amazed as to all the things coupling to vertical 
arrays and even Beverages. It was also important to vary the length of the 
modeled objects like power lines as they mostly were of indeterminate length so 
I assumed whatever was average or even worst. My biggest surprise was the local 
power drop with ground rod that looked remarkably similar to an inverted L on 
160.

     My 2 cents or .005 gallons        Lee  K7TJR Oregon 
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