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[AMPS] where to find info

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [AMPS] where to find info
From: w8ji.tom@MCIONE.com (Tom Rauch)
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:57:32 +0000
To: <amps@contesting.com>
> Date:          Sun, 24 May 1998 10:19:44 -0500
> From:          Jon Ogden <jono@webspun.com>
> Subject:       Re: [AMPS] where to find info
> To:            w8ji.tom@mcione.com, amps@contesting.com
Hi Jon,

> >> From what I have heard the 4-1000A has great IMD and audio performance.  
> >
> >Nonsense. The typical 8877 or 3CX800 GG PA will provide -38 dB to 
> >-42 dB third order IMD performance, while the best 4-1000A 
> >in grounded grid (with no screen or grid bias supplies) will only 
> >provide -25 to -35 dB.
 
> OK.  It's different from what I've heard.  But I'll stand corrected.

Most tetrodes are that way. Some fellow keeps trying to sell 
Ameritron on a G2DAF circuit, claiming it has "good and fully 
acceptable performance".  He finally delivered IMD specs, and they are  
-24 dB third order. An unbiased class C transistor will do that well.

My point? Acceptable means different things to different people. IMO, 
less than -35 dB is unacceptable for high power PA's. For that 
fellow, -24 dB is good enough. I hope his neighbor uses one of 
his amps real soon, before my neighbor buys one!

> >4-1000A's, especially when the grids are not supplied proper dc 
> >operating  voltages, are notoriously trashy when compared to modern 
> >focus beam triodes.
> 
> I've never seen a 4-1000A cathode driven design that has biased grids.

I used regulated bias and screen supplies in all but my first few GG 
4-1000 amps. I initially thought it would improve output power, 
but it made next to no difference. I later learned that was because 
of the heavy negative feedback inherent in a cathode driven PA.

One side effect I didn't expect was a fellow about a mile from me who 
constantly complained about my signal suddenly asked what I did to 
fix my amp. He brought over a spectrum analyzer and we measured the 
same PA with and without grid voltages. There was about twenty dB 
improvement in high order IMD products, with only that single 
circuit change!     

> >There is absolutely no comparison between a clunky old bottle with 
> >long internal leads like the 4-1000 and a modern tube DESIGNED for GG 
> >service. 
> 
> Tom, I won't argue with you at all here.  You have far more experience 
> than I.  It's just a romantic old firebottle, IMHO.  That's why I like 
> it.  Plus it's what the amp had when I bought it!

Nothing wrong with nostalgia Jon, but let's keep in mind the guys 
question. 

He wanted to get info on a 4-1000 PA because he wanted to build what 
sounds like his first PA. 

IMO, using an unstable tube that requires at least 5 kV to make 
1200-1500 watts output with a 100 watt exciter is not a good 
beginners project.




73, Tom W8JI
w8ji.tom@MCIONE.com

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