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[Amps] Chimney materials - Loss or not TSPA

To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: [Amps] Chimney materials - Loss or not TSPA
From: "John T. M. Lyles" <jtml@lanl.gov>
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:03:08 -0600
List-post: <mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Air cooled tube chimneys seem to be a big topic these days, as much 
as discussion of EPAY and that other service. I want to suggest that 
people consider that these chimneys are typically situated at the 
highest impedance of an RF amplifier, across the anode to ground 
space. With 2-3 kV of peak RF swing there, at, say 28.25 MHz, one can 
expect a minimal but measureable dielectric heating effect. With a 
thin cross section, like transformer paper that Will suggests, this 
may not cause appreciable heating in such a narrow piece of 
dielectric. As long as moisture doesn't ingress into the paper, it 
should be OK. Vinyl chloride-containing polymers (like PVC) are just 
the opposite of what you want for a low loss dielectric. According to 
Arthur Von Hipple's classic compendium of dielectric data from MIT in 
the 1950s,  (Dielectric Materials and Applications, available in 
reprint from Artech house now), PVC formulations have typically 100 x 
the loss tangent of polyethylene at 1 - 10 MHz range. RF sealing 
process is used to stamp PVC articles together, like the patches on 
auto carpets under the pedals, like inflatable rafts, like door 
panels for autos, packs and raincoats. The harder polymers such as 
used in pipe may be a bit more resistant than the flexible variety, 
but they still have a lot of ionic content. We don't use PVC pipe 
fittings in commercial Deionized water systems as they tend to 
release ions into the solution.

As an RF engineer I try to stick by rules of things which are 
acceptable and not, and apply them universally. I spent 6 years doing 
just dielectric heating experiments for applications at E. I. DuPont 
Co, so I got very familiar with what plastics I could trust or not. 
My overly conservative  stance (go ahead AG6K, fire away!) often gets 
criticism from those who say it will work fine at lower voltage, or 
for low duty operation like amateur transmissions. It true that cost 
is no object in many high powered systems where you don't want to run 
the risk of a burn-out. In low Q applications like pi-networks, the 
voltage is well defined. In cavity and line circuits, beware, as the 
Q can be higher, the voltage rises significant. I still suggest that 
we don't tempt Mr. Murphy too far, as one may be sitting up on 10 
meters (or worst yet, 6) key down and wonder why output power seems 
to be dropping while smoke begins to rise from the PA compartment 
(and that hideous smell of melted PVC). Think of it this way, would 
you use the same material as a standoff insulator in an RF network 
with high voltage? Do you mind the lowering of Q that lossy 
dielectrics can introduce? Unfortunately, the old microwave oven test 
doesn't work well enough to apply the results, as constant fields are 
not produced, they purposely move them around to cook a chicken 
uniformly. Applying a fixed electric field in one direction through a 
thick dielectric, with minimal spaces (air gaps) between it and the 
metal, is the exact method used to get temperature rise in dielectric 
heating industry. Be careful; check your homeowner insurance policy 
if you care to experiment and take materials close to their limits.

John
K5PRO
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