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Re: [Amps] grounding grids

To: audioguy@charter.net, lists@subich.com, alexeban@gmail.com, amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] grounding grids
From: TexasRF@aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 18:18:50 EDT
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Didn't Heath use the ungrounded grids as a way to apply cutoff bias during  
standby?
 
Seems the internal antenna relays were connected between a -130vdc  supply 
and the grids. The connection to the grids was wired to a rear panel jack  
where a ground application operated the relays and shorted the bias all at  
once.
 
The chokes would have been there to keep rf out of the bias supply. 
 
73,
Gerald K5GW
 
 
 
In a message dated 7/29/2009 5:10:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
audioguy@charter.net writes:

So why  did Heath do it then? (Chokes et al)
Inquiring minds want to know
73,  --jim


Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device from U.S.  Cellular

-----Original Message-----
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV"  <lists@subich.com>

Date: Wed, 29 Jul 2009 17:49:20 
To: 'Alex  Eban'<alexeban@gmail.com>;  'Ham-amps'<amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] grounding  grids




> From an RF point of view, the grid is grounded  and well,

The Grid is far from "well grounded."  With 220 pF in  series, 
the grids are above ground by 25 Ohms (Xc) at 28 MHz and 206  
Ohms (Xc) at 3.5 MHz (the design operating range of the SB-220)  
ignoring the Xl of the long and thin leads on the capacitors 
and the  effects (including distributed capacitance and internal 
resonances)) of  the RF chokes. 

25 to 200 Ohms is far from "well grounded" and an  opportunity 
for oscillation at some frequency.  For a more rigorous  analysis 
see: http://www.w8ji.com/vhf_stability.htm 

Again, placing  ANY impedance in the grid portion of a "common 
grid" circuit is an  invitation to instability and the impedance 
of all grid connections should  be minimized.  Eimac's air system 
sockets even include slots to allow  the shortest possible strap 
connections from the grids to chassis.  

73, 

... Joe, W4TV 





> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Eban  [mailto:alexeban@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 1:29  PM
> To: 'Bill W5WVO'; lists@subich.com; stevengrant98@yahoo.com;  
> 'Ham-amps'
> Subject: RE: [Amps] grounding grids
>  
> 
> ...the key to the stability is the capacitors! From an RF  
> point of view, the grid is grounded and well, since 
>  capacitors work well at 6 meters.
> Alex    4Z5KS
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amps-bounces@contesting.com  
> [mailto:amps-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Bill W5WVO
>  Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 7:58 PM
> To: lists@subich.com;  stevengrant98@yahoo.com; 'Ham-amps'
> Subject: Re: [Amps] grounding  grids
> 
> Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
> 
> > While the  3-500Z and other older glass tubes don't have
> > as much gain as the  newer external anode tubes, the
> > principle is the same.  If  there is enough gain and the 
> feedback is of 
> > the correct  phase the tube will oscillate. Placing any impedance in 
> > the  "grounded" grid of a common grid circuit increases - 
> not decreases  
> > - the chances of oscillation.
> 
> How would you  characterize, then, the design of the SB-220, 
> where the  3-500Z
> 
> grids are grounded through RFCs and bypassed by dsk  ceramic 
> caps? Particularly 
> since this particular amplifier  has been converted to 6m use, 
> but the grid 
> components are  still originals from the HF version.
> 
> Would this amplifier be  more stable with the grid pins 
> directly grounded to 
>  chassis?
> 
> Bill W5WVO
> 
> >
> >  73,
> >
> >    ... Joe, W4TV
> >
>  >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>  From: amps-bounces@contesting.com 
> >>  [mailto:amps-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Steven 
> Grant,  W4IIV
> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 10:45 AM
>  >> To: Herzog; Ham-amps; Bill Fuqua
> >> Subject: Re: [Amps]  grounding grids
> >>
> >>
> >> This was  used on newer tubes (3-500Z - ect) to raise the 
> resonance of 
>  >> the grid to control parasitics. It is not needed for older  tubes
> >>
> >> STEVEN GRANT W4IIV
>  >>
> >> --- On Wed, 7/29/09, Bill Fuqua  <wlfuqu00@uky.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>
>  >> From: Bill Fuqua <wlfuqu00@uky.edu>
> >> Subject:  Re: [Amps] grounding grids
> >> To: "Herzog"  <herzog@frontiernet.net>, "Ham-amps" 
> >>  <amps@contesting.com>
> >> Date: Wednesday, July 29, 2009,  9:28 AM
> >>
> >>
> >> Maybe to measure  individual grid currents?
> >> That would be the only reason I can  think of.
> >> 73
> >> Bill wa4lav
>  >>
> >> At 08:35 PM 7/27/2009 -0400, Herzog wrote:
>  >>> RE: > >Hi.
> >>>>> This has probable  been asked before on this group,but... Is it 
> >>>>>  good practice to physically tie the grids to ground via one 
>  >>>>> connection,or via low value resistors and decoupling  
> capacitors. I 
> >>>>> was
> >>  going to go for VHF
> >>>>> practice and go for direct  grounding,but would like
> >> some comments before
>  >>>>> progressing this project.
> >>>>>  73`s Jon
> >>>
> >>> REPLY:
>  >>>
> >>> I'm curious - what would be the reason for  using resistors and 
> >>> decoupling caps?
>  >>>
> >>> 73, Bill W6WRT
> >>>  ===========================
> >>> Herzog proffers a reason, to  be able to measure the grid current. 
> >>>  _______________________________________________
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> >>> Amps@contesting.com 
> >>>  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
> >>
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>  >>
> >>
> >>
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