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[Amps] how much C in PS is too much ?

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Subject: [Amps] how much C in PS is too much ?
From: "Jim Thomson" <Jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 02:50:02 -0700
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:11:21 -0800
From: "Zeitler, Lane LT, FST-1" <zeitlel@cpr3.navy.mil>
Subject: [Amps] how much C in PS is too much?


I am curious. I see some 10,000uf 450volt electrolytic caps for sale on
Ebay. 8 of these would give you 3600volt capability at more or less
1250uF total capacitance. Is this too much?. Are there any dangers using
this much C in a filter for a PS? In the past I have used eight 560uF
caps and other values similar to this. Just curious, thank you. Lane
Ku7i

##  well, I didn't find any on ebay, 3 mins ago..so probably snapped up.

## I have been running various  tests  using high amounts of C in B+
supplies.. and so far, so good.   But  not  with 10,000 uf units though.

## those things are typ 3.5" diam  x 9" long.   We  have tried  8x  2500uf
caps in series.. =  312 uf. [2"  x 4"]    Also what has been tried is 30 x 
3900 uf in series..and also  24 x 3900 uf.    I also tried 20 x 2000 uf. 

## later on this year, we will be trying  24 x 2300 uf to make a 'bank'...
then paralleling 9 x banks =  862 uf. 

##  what else will be tested is  8 x 2500 uf to make one bank.. then
paralleling 2 x such banks.  624 uf. 

##  some precautions have to be observed though. I use a real 50 ohm glitch R,
which is preceded by a fast HV fuse.     The  glitch R LIMITS the fault current,
while the hv fuse, INTERRUPTS the fault current.    I also install a 2nd hv 
fuse,
in one leg of plate xfmr sec... between  sec and FWB.    I use either 6A10
or  10A10  diodes.  [ 1 kv @  6/10A...  400A  surge, 70/100A  rep rating.]

##  glitch R's that have been tried... and work... [can be cro-barred 
repeatedly]
are  2 x 100 ohm, 100 w ww in parallel.  2 x 100 ohm, 225 w ww.   4 x 200 ohm,
275w type CX  globars.  4 x 200 ohm, 225 w ww.    My latest is 4 x 200 ohm, 
type AS globars,  each is 1.5"  diam x 18" long.  Just abt all are fan cooled.  
  

## I also use a fast,  'instant trip'    magnetic hydraulic breaker, with no 
fluid
in the reservoir  [ that's the instant trip part] .   Also,  since the banks of 
caps
are sometimes[95%] in a separate box  from the main B+ supply, the box of
caps  gets  it's own  dedicated B+ meter.... strapped directly between  B+  and 
B- .   Ditto  with  RF deck,.. and also ditto with  B+  supply.  If the  HV 
fuse in the
B+  blows open.. the B+  meter in the B+ supply will read  full voltage... 
meanwhile
the B+ meter in the RF deck reads zero.  Box of caps also reads  full B+.  I 
use 10 x
1 meg, ohmite , 1% slimox resistor's, 15 kv rated [each]... in series with the 
0-1 ma
meter... to make each  B+ meter.  

## the step start procedure is different as well.   I use huge 20 ohm Arcol, 
metal
finned units. [300w]  For real high C stuff, the step start R  has to be 
progressively
lower, so the sec surge doesn't blow out the 2nd  HV fuse... [Between xfmr sec 
+ FWB]
On the 7700 vdc @ 862 uf  set up... 6 x 20 ohm arcols are strapped in parallel.

## The problem is the magnetizing current of the bigger xfmr's..  flows through 
the 
step start R.. creating a  V drop.. so the caps  never can get fully charged up.

##  step start R goes into one leg of 240 line.   I use surplus  3 x pole 
contactor's..
and strap all 3 x poles in parallel.. to make on big SPST contactor.    3 x  
such assy's are
built.  One for each leg  of the 240 line.. and the 3rd one does the step 
start.  A 0-15
or  0-30 second timer module does the step start timing.  The 10   contacts of 
the
timer are used to apply 120/240 to the solenoid coil of the step start 
contactor.  

##  energy storage goes up to the square of the voltage.   Another method of 
step start
involves using a small variac  [ big enough to handle the mag current]  to ramp 
up the
B+  to max.... then the variac  is quickly switched out of the circuit.   [no 
step start R
used at all]    I have not tried using a triac to ramp up the B+  over several 
seconds. 

## To make the high C filter  work right... you need a xfmr  with low esr on 
both pri+sec.
And also big ga wire  back to main panel.   Still,  with just  8 x 2500 uf 
caps.. and  a slightly
tweaked up step start, and stock small xfmr, the results are amazing.  Zero 
ripple, and superb
dynamic regulation.   Static regulation improves too..esp with heavy loads.  
Pep output 
on wattmeter  is up... like 100-150 w pep. 

##  I used  100 k  3 w  mof  1% tol eq resistors  from mouser.. across  each 
cap. Also, a 6A10
safety diode is  rvs connected across each lytic.  4-6 parallel  6A10's  are 
wired between
chassis and B-.      And 4-6 more, flipped 180 deg. [rvs connected, 8-12 in 
total] .  This way,
B- can't wonder more than +/-  .7 V         Just realize you are dealing with 
one helluva 
lot of stored up energy.

Later........ Jim   VE7RF   


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