I'm pretty much a lurker here, and I find the discussions to be interesting
and educational. Yes even the arguments provide some education and a little
entertainment.
As to what constitutes "real" ham radio technology, I think it is a very
broad hobby.
I offer a couple of examples to ponder of people who changed the world
without necessarily studying advanced calculus.
The first one that comes to mind is Galileo. Was he a student of
astro-physics? No, but he had a scientific mind that looked up at the
heavens, and concluded that the conventional wisdom of the time did not
explain what he was observing. The rest as they say is history. Of course
he went on to explore more deeply, but that initial spark is what drove the
science forward.
Major Armstrong, sometimes known as the father of FM radio, lambasted Lee
DeForest because he could not explain the physics of the Audion. But it was
NOT Armstrong who made the first amplifying tube (valve to you across the
pond). The amplifier changed the world in everything from medicine to music.
I suspect Mr DeForest looked at they way current flowed between the heated
cathode and plate, and posed an interesting "what if" we put a mesh between
them and varied the voltage? It was intuitive and yes he did know about
cathodes, plates, and electrons.
I wasn't very interested in ham radio amplifiers until someone gifted me one
(it had a problem, which I fixed). Such is the nature of the hobby.
Sometimes we just stumble into things!
Then there is economics. I envy the access some of you have to lots of
hardware and apparently cash! Some of us make the best of what we have, even
though it may not be "perfect."
I work in Broadcast technology for a living. I am in ham radio for fun!
Here's to the fun!!!
Chris, AB6QK.
-----Original Message-----
From: Amps [mailto:amps-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of
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Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 6:06 AM
To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Amps Digest, Vol 145, Issue 10
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Today's Topics:
1. The genius of ham radio (Charles Henry)
2. Re: The genius of ham radio (Tom Osborne)
3. Re: The genius of ham radio (Jim Brown)
4. Re: The genius of ham radio (Roger (K8RI))
5. Re: The genius of ham radio (Charles Henry)
6. Re: The genius of ham radio (Jim Brown)
7. Re: The genius of ham radio (Alek Petkovic)
8. Re: The genius of ham radio (Paul)
9. Re: The genius of ham radio (Eddy Swynar)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 03:38:51 +0000
From: Charles Henry <k4vud@hotmail.com>
To: "amps@contesting.com" <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [Amps] The genius of ham radio
Message-ID: <BLU182-W42682EF7D6CDF896BAB1ECF7430@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
The genius of ham radio is that hams are brave and practical enough to look
THEORY in the face and then go on with WHAT WORKS. Also, to listen to Mr.
Smith, nod politely, and go on with WHAT WORKS.
As a lofty appliance operator, I live ham radio by WHAT WORKS, not Mr. Smith
or others.
That is my fun, and thank goodness for the great numbers of inventive,
theory-testing/discarding real hams who MAKE IT WORK.
73, Charly
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 21:01:10 -0800
From: Tom Osborne <w7why@frontier.com>
To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] The genius of ham radio
Message-ID: <54B35516.3060606@frontier.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Yes, I think there are a lot of people like this. I see post after post
about modeling antennas, theory, etc, but seems like I never see these
people on the air. Think they are so worried about getting perfection
that they can't just get on and have some fun. 73
Tom W7WHY
On 1/11/2015 7:38 PM, Charles Henry wrote:
> The genius of ham radio is that hams are brave and practical enough to
look THEORY in the face and then go on with WHAT WORKS. Also, to listen to
Mr. Smith, nod politely, and go on with WHAT WORKS.
> As a lofty appliance operator, I live ham radio by WHAT WORKS, not Mr.
Smith or others.
> That is my fun, and thank goodness for the great numbers of inventive,
theory-testing/discarding real hams who MAKE IT WORK.
> 73, Charly
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 22:06:00 -0800
From: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] The genius of ham radio
Message-ID: <54B36448.3020701@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
On Sun,1/11/2015 7:38 PM, Charles Henry wrote:
> The genius of ham radio is that hams are brave and practical enough to
look THEORY in the face and then go on with WHAT WORKS. Also, to listen to
Mr. Smith, nod politely, and go on with WHAT WORKS.
> As a lofty appliance operator, I live ham radio by WHAT WORKS, not Mr.
Smith or others.
> That is my fun, and thank goodness for the great numbers of inventive,
theory-testing/discarding real hams who MAKE IT WORK.
I'm sure we're all glad that you are happy with ham radio as you play
with it. But those who think there is a difference between theory and
practice don't know enough about one or the other (or both). Tom
Schiller, N6BT, famously published his "light bulb" experiment, working
all continents in a short time using a light bulb as his antenna. His
point was that "everything 'works,' but some things work a lot better
than others, and the results ARE predicted by fundamental scientific
principles -- what you dismiss as "only theory."
Those who pooh-pooh those fundamental principles which they don't bother
to learn become easy suckers for every circus-barker's dumb idea that
comes down the pike to suck money out of their credit cards. And pursue
equally dumb solutions to whatever problems they encounter along the
way, like hum, buzz, and RFI.
73, Jim K9YC
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 01:22:31 -0500
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri@rogerhalstead.com>
To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] The genius of ham radio
Message-ID: <54B36827.4030502@rogerhalstead.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
When established theory and practice don't agree the the person who
says that, doesn't understand the theory, did the experiment wrong, or both.
As Jim quoted: His point was that "everything 'works,' but some things
work a lot better than others, and the results ARE predicted by
fundamental scientific principles -
73
Roger (K8RI)
On 1/12/2015 1:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Sun,1/11/2015 7:38 PM, Charles Henry wrote:
>> The genius of ham radio is that hams are brave and practical enough
>> to look THEORY in the face and then go on with WHAT WORKS. Also, to
>> listen to Mr. Smith, nod politely, and go on with WHAT WORKS.
>> As a lofty appliance operator, I live ham radio by WHAT WORKS, not
>> Mr. Smith or others.
>> That is my fun, and thank goodness for the great numbers of
>> inventive, theory-testing/discarding real hams who MAKE IT WORK.
>
> I'm sure we're all glad that you are happy with ham radio as you play
> with it. But those who think there is a difference between theory and
> practice don't know enough about one or the other (or both). Tom
> Schiller, N6BT, famously published his "light bulb" experiment,
> working all continents in a short time using a light bulb as his
> antenna. His point was that "everything 'works,' but some things work
> a lot better than others, and the results ARE predicted by fundamental
> scientific principles -- what you dismiss as "only theory."
>
> Those who pooh-pooh those fundamental principles which they don't
> bother to learn become easy suckers for every circus-barker's dumb
> idea that comes down the pike to suck money out of their credit cards.
> And pursue equally dumb solutions to whatever problems they encounter
> along the way, like hum, buzz, and RFI.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 06:51:45 +0000
From: Charles Henry <k4vud@hotmail.com>
To: Roger K8RI <k8ri@rogerhalstead.com>, "amps@contesting.com"
<amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] The genius of ham radio
Message-ID: <BLU182-W1054BA600F9EE3BAFA6F9F7430@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Roger roger, Roger......I have read about the best science of its age
swearing the Earth is flat, torturing people saying the Earth circles the
Sun, and lately that objects, matter, can be in two places at the same time.
"Knowledge" is a slippery thing.
My point is that the genius of ham radio, not highly financed esoteric
research, is making things work, being the only way of getting a message
passed, inventing cell phone systems, heck... inventing radio itself.
We have to listen to the one genius way down in the bowels of the hierarchy
who keeps saying that a frozen bit of foam will puncture a big hole in the
Shuttle wing or that a rubber O-ring freezes when there are icicles on the
whole launch structure. Oh, go ahead and launch... what does HE know!
73, Charly
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 01:22:31 -0500
> From: k8ri@rogerhalstead.com
> To: amps@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [Amps] The genius of ham radio
>
>
>
> When established theory and practice don't agree the the person who
> says that, doesn't understand the theory, did the experiment wrong, or
both.
>
> As Jim quoted: His point was that "everything 'works,' but some things
> work a lot better than others, and the results ARE predicted by
> fundamental scientific principles -
>
> 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
> On 1/12/2015 1:06 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> > On Sun,1/11/2015 7:38 PM, Charles Henry wrote:
> >> The genius of ham radio is that hams are brave and practical enough
> >> to look THEORY in the face and then go on with WHAT WORKS. Also, to
> >> listen to Mr. Smith, nod politely, and go on with WHAT WORKS.
> >> As a lofty appliance operator, I live ham radio by WHAT WORKS, not
> >> Mr. Smith or others.
> >> That is my fun, and thank goodness for the great numbers of
> >> inventive, theory-testing/discarding real hams who MAKE IT WORK.
> >
> > I'm sure we're all glad that you are happy with ham radio as you play
> > with it. But those who think there is a difference between theory and
> > practice don't know enough about one or the other (or both). Tom
> > Schiller, N6BT, famously published his "light bulb" experiment,
> > working all continents in a short time using a light bulb as his
> > antenna. His point was that "everything 'works,' but some things work
> > a lot better than others, and the results ARE predicted by fundamental
> > scientific principles -- what you dismiss as "only theory."
> >
> > Those who pooh-pooh those fundamental principles which they don't
> > bother to learn become easy suckers for every circus-barker's dumb
> > idea that comes down the pike to suck money out of their credit cards.
> > And pursue equally dumb solutions to whatever problems they encounter
> > along the way, like hum, buzz, and RFI.
> >
> > 73, Jim K9YC
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Amps mailing list
> > Amps@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
> >
> >
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Amps@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2015 23:35:22 -0800
From: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] The genius of ham radio
Message-ID: <54B3793A.3040700@audiosystemsgroup.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
On Sun,1/11/2015 10:51 PM, Charles Henry wrote:
> My point is that the genius of ham radio, not highly financed esoteric
research,
Most of the hams of my generation hit the books to learn how stuff
works. This was not highly funded esoteric research.
> is making things work, being the only way of getting a message passed,
inventing cell phone systems, heck... inventing radio itself.
BS. How much study have you done of the guys who invented radio? Damn
little, I'd bet.
The vast majority of those who have "made shit happen" are thoroughly
schooled guys, whether they learned it in the university or by self
study "back of the woodshed." One of the sharpest guys I know working in
pro audio and acoustics learned electronics in the military, but did
EXTENSIVE self study that resulting in him making MAJOR advances in the
state of the art. He did that NOT as a "no nothing" staggering around in
the dark, but as a guy who learned the physics and by innovative
thought, found new solutions to old problems.
Where we are today is NOT the result of an infinite number of monkeys
and typewriters producing Shakespeare.
73, Jim k9YC
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 16:10:48 +0800
From: Alek Petkovic <vk6apk@bigpond.com>
To: Amplifier Mailing List <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] The genius of ham radio
Message-ID: <54B38188.80607@bigpond.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
If I'm not mistaken, Charly's initial point was that everybody is in the
hobby for different reasons. Some are just appliance operators, with
little knowledge on how things work and they are happy with that. They
often resort to doing things that physics and electronic theory say
won't work. They sometimes get results from their misadventures, that
are good enough to get them on the air and talk to their friends. That's
all they want out of the hobby.
73, Alek
VK6APK
On 12/01/2015 3:35 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
> On Sun,1/11/2015 10:51 PM, Charles Henry wrote:
>> My point is that the genius of ham radio, not highly financed
>> esoteric research,
>
> Most of the hams of my generation hit the books to learn how stuff
> works. This was not highly funded esoteric research.
>
>> is making things work, being the only way of getting a message
>> passed, inventing cell phone systems, heck... inventing radio itself.
>
> BS. How much study have you done of the guys who invented radio? Damn
> little, I'd bet.
>
> The vast majority of those who have "made shit happen" are thoroughly
> schooled guys, whether they learned it in the university or by self
> study "back of the woodshed." One of the sharpest guys I know working
> in pro audio and acoustics learned electronics in the military, but
> did EXTENSIVE self study that resulting in him making MAJOR advances
> in the state of the art. He did that NOT as a "no nothing" staggering
> around in the dark, but as a guy who learned the physics and by
> innovative thought, found new solutions to old problems.
>
> Where we are today is NOT the result of an infinite number of monkeys
> and typewriters producing Shakespeare.
>
> 73, Jim k9YC
>
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>
--
From Sunny Binningup
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:07:33 +0000
From: Paul <paul@g4dcv.co.uk>
To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] The genius of ham radio
Message-ID: <54B39CE5.5070307@g4dcv.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Hi Charly
Really? Is that how you'd like commercial airline designers to work?
I can't let that reference to Richard Feynman go past without comment.
He really was a genius. His Feynman digrams made Dirac's work on Quantum
Physics accessible to many other scientists and he got the Nobel Prize
as a result. Feynman was invited onto the Rogers Commission and although
he was a theoretical physicist, he demonstrated what the problem was in
a very practical way when he put the O ring material into iced water. He
cut through all the smoke and mirrors to get to the heart of the problem.
BTW and as an aside. While there isn't any evidence I know of that
Feynman was a radio amateur, he was very interested and almost one of
us. He described how he loved messing around with old radios as a kid.
And he pirated. In his book, Surely You are Joking Mr Feynman, he says
of the time he was working in Brazil, "I found an amateur radio operator
in Brazil, and about once a week I'd go over to his house. He'd make
contact with the ham radio operator in Passadena. and then, because
there was something slightly illegal about it, he'd give me some call
letter and would say, "Now I'll turn you over to WKW, who's sitting next
to me and would like to talk to you. The first guy went on vacation, but
he gave me another amateur radio operator to go to. This second guy was
blind and operated his station. They were both very nice, and the
contact I had with Caltech by ham radio was very effective and useful to
me."
73 Paul G4DCV
On 12/01/2015 06:51, Charles Henry wrote:
> Roger roger, Roger......I have read about the best science of its age
swearing the Earth is flat, torturing people saying the Earth circles the
Sun, and lately that objects, matter, can be in two places at the same time.
"Knowledge" is a slippery thing.
> My point is that the genius of ham radio, not highly financed esoteric
research, is making things work, being the only way of getting a message
passed, inventing cell phone systems, heck... inventing radio itself.
> We have to listen to the one genius way down in the bowels of the
hierarchy who keeps saying that a frozen bit of foam will puncture a big
hole in the Shuttle wing or that a rubber O-ring freezes when there are
icicles on the whole launch structure. Oh, go ahead and launch... what
does HE know!
> 73, Charly
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 09:05:41 -0500
From: Eddy Swynar <deswynar@xplornet.ca>
To: Charles Henry <k4vud@hotmail.com>
Cc: "amps@contesting.com" <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] The genius of ham radio
Message-ID: <28890634-4DFA-4DEE-93C2-FCF6886A8C0A@xplornet.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On 2015-01-11, at 10:38 PM, Charles Henry wrote:
> The genius of ham radio is that hams are brave and practical enough to
look THEORY in the face and then go on with WHAT WORKS. Also, to listen to
Mr. Smith, nod politely, and go on with WHAT WORKS.
> As a lofty appliance operator, I live ham radio by WHAT WORKS, not Mr.
Smith or others.
> That is my fun, and thank goodness for the great numbers of inventive,
theory-testing/discarding real hams who MAKE IT WORK.
> 73, Charly
Hi Charly,
Are we not, after all, "...tinkerers and experimenters" in the final
analysis...?
I agree with you. That's the FUN of Amateur radio, in my books!
~73~ de Eddy VE3CUI - VE3XZ
------------------------------
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