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Re: [Amps] L7 FIXED (was L7 problems)

To: "Jim W7RY" <jimw7ry@gmail.com>, <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] L7 FIXED (was L7 problems)
From: "Jim Thomson" <jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2016 23:57:27 -0800
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
##  I did not miss that.   The point I was  trying to make was.... a grid fuse 
WILL safely work... provided  ALL the grid pins ARE directly bonded to 
chassis.....and  the grid fuse is wired between chassis..and negative terminal 
of grid meter..or grid meter shunt.  In that case, the grid is always  bonded 
to the chassis... resulting in zero cathode fault current. 

##  IMO, floating the grids with caps....which provide for an RF ground, then 
using a RF choke  for the DC return is fubar.   The amount of NFB is miniscule 
at best, resulting in zero decrease in IMD.   It actually makes things worse 
when using chokes....since the chokes used in the heath SB-220  have a dc 
resistance of 25 ohms.   300 ma of grid current... is  150ma per tube.    .150 
x 25 =  3.75 vdc  of additional bias on top of the 5 v zener used already.   So 
total bias yo-yos  between 5 – 8.75 vdc  between not talking..and talking on 
ssb ( PTT locked up).   RL drake grid chokes measure just .9 ohm...so the 
varying bias effect is of course much less.   Just .135 vdc. 

##  so with grid caps and chokes tossed..and  all grid pins  bonded directly to 
chassis, drive requirements drop 20-25 watts on the typ  2 x 3-500Z amp.   No 
yo-yoing bias either.  Plus now a grid fuse can be correctly wired between  
chassis and neg of grid meter...or grid  shunt.   Ok, now you can also stuff a 
4-400  etc, into any SB-200.  

##  Eimac even specs the use of a  3agc grid fuse, wired between  chassis and  
neg terminal of the YC-243 tube..... which is just a socketless 3CX-6000A7 .   
Takes 3 secs to replace a rear mounted  3agc  fuse.  

##  Even with grid chokes used..... or a resistor  or fuse wired directly 
between grid pin and chassis....still never see a case of cathode fault current 
occurring.   It would require a stupid amount of peak V  to arc from anode to 
cathode. not gonna happen.    The choke –fuse- resistor would 1st have to open 
off, then the B+  would have to arc  from anode to cathode.  Sure, the choke 
–fuse-resistor will open off, but the B+  still wont arc to the cathode.  

later... Jim   VE7RF


From: Jim W7RY 
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2016 10:08 AM
To: Jim Thomson ; amps@contesting.com 
Subject: Re: [Amps] L7 FIXED (was L7 problems)

Jim... You must have missed this statement from W8JI's site...

"The grid, being directly between the anode and cathode, shields the 
filament-cathode from the anode. Very little cathode fault current flows unless 
the grid is floated on resistors, chokes, or fuses. F1 in the grid is actually 
a very bad idea.

73
Merry Christmas
Jim W7RY


-----Original Message----- 
From: Jim Thomson 
Sent: Monday, December 12, 2016 9:09 AM 
To: amps@contesting.com 
Subject: [Amps] L7 FIXED (was L7 problems) 

Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2016 19:21:23 -0600
From: "Jim W7RY" <jimw7ry@gmail.com>
To: "Paul Kraemer" <elespe@lisco.com>, <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Amps] L7 FIXED (was L7 problems)

Better to put a diode here to protect the meters. See the link:


D2 in the last diagram.

I put a spot for one on my SB220 replacement diode/metering board.



73
Jim W7RY

##  Use several  6A10  diodes, in parallel, for the function of D2.  That assy
is then wired  directly between B-  of HV filter caps... and chassis.  At a 
rated 400A 
surge capability....albeit for only 8.3 msecs...is the reason  for 2-4 x  6A10 
diodes in parallel. 
Then the total surge rating is increased..and safe time extended.   Fault 
current is just B+   divided by 
value of glitch resistor.   IF  you want D2  to actually survive intact, after 
one or
more events, paralleled 6A10s  are the ticket. 

##  To keep the  B-  from wandering too far from chassis potential,  use RVS 
connected 
diodes.  IE:  install a  single 6A10, between chassis and B-, but this time 
with cathode, banded
end of diode, facing the  chassis.    To recap,  2-4 parallel  diodes, with 
cathodes facing the B-.
And a single diode, with cathode facing  chassis.   

##  Worse case scenario is  a B+  to grid arc....or a B+  to  chassis...aka 
metal arc.  In which case the path for
fault current is from grid to chassis... and then from chassis  UP through the 
paralleled diode assy... and back to the
B- of of the HV supply, completing the loop.   If you are relying  on the 240 
vac fuses or circuit breaker to open off,
during a fault event, that typ takes 35-80 msecs... imo is too long.  I install 
a HV rated fuse in series with the 50 ohm
glitch R.  With 3 kv of B+..and a 50 ohm glitch R, the fault current is just   
60A.   60A of fault current  will open off
a 1 Amp rated HV fuse in less than 2 msecs.  The glitch R limits the fault 
current, the HV fuse  interrupts the fault current,
and extremely fast.....  which takes a huge load off the glitch R.   Event over.

##  Looking at the W8JI  url posted above. .... 
http://www.w8ji.com/fault_protection.htm  the grid fuse is installed
incorrectly in all his examples.   This is a throwback to Rich measures 
advocating replacing the grid chokes  with either
1/2 watt  CC resistors... or 3agc glass fuses...wired directly between a grid 
pin and chassis... fubar.  

##  Correct method is to toss the  grid caps and grid RF chokes....and instead 
bond all 3 x grid pins of each 3-500Z  directly 
to the chassis  with wide cu strap.    Then mount a  3agc type fuse holder on 
the lower rear panel. Wire the fuse  between  chassis and
negative terminal of grid meter..... or grid meter shunt.   Grids are always 
chassis bonded.   Suck too much DC grid current,
and correctly installed grid fuse opens up.   With no path for DC grid current, 
the PO  of the amp drops to zero watts. 
Input swr rises to infinity.   Xcvr shuts itself down.   Simple to replace 3agc 
grid fuse.   Just use a FAST type 3agc fuse, like
a 250 ma type...and even less for a single 3-500Z.

Jim   VE7RF  



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