Mark, do you have access to or build a RF sniffer that can be run along the
wiring and coax to detect hot spots?
The sensitivity will likely have to be very poor or have switchable
attenuation and then feed into a VNA or SA.
I had to spend 6 days on the USS Carl Vinson, CVN-70, in 82 to locate and
fix the ships RF getting into the computers and work stations. That was my
first serious field experience with ferrites and the fix was done in 3 days.
The rest was a "sea cruise" as I was also a USNR CWO2 and had a ball with
the chiefs. Catapulted off and flew home from PR.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Bitterlich" <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>
To: "Mark Bitterlich" <markbitterlich@embarqmail.com>; <amps@contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2017 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] RF in Vehicles
Carl, the transmitter ranges from 60 MHz, to 500 MHz. David, the reason
for
that much power is that it is used for jamming. Bob Moody, it is
impossible to radiate this transmitter on the ground. There are serious
HERP and HERO issues. Ron, same answer. Can't transmit it on the ground.
Further, the power source is a Ram Air Turbine. The transmitter has been
checked on a bench and operates normally. The antenna and feedline have
been checked with a VNA, but not under load, which of course makes them
suspect. They were replaced. Same problem. Jim, the electronics are
pretty well designed. Yes, I agree that the RF is coupling to the wiring
(thus my point when I presented this true condition) but in a way that is
not obvious and not easy to troubleshoot. My comment was also intended to
make the obvious connection that RF outside can easily become RF "inside"
even with a properly designed antenna, ground plane and feedline.
Amazingly
enough, this problem occured at the exact same time as the "RF in
vehicles"
subject line appeared, so I thought I would mention it.
Interestingly enough, at 1-10 GHz, at the same or higher power level,
there
are no issues with the generator.
The length of the wiring from the transmitter enclosure to where it enters
the aircraft is about 12 inches or less. It is also extremely well
shielded, and also has been replaced. The grounds for these shields have
not been extensively tested, only with a standard ohm meter. Using a
bridge
to check it down to milliohms is being done.
I am not permitted to redesign the aircraft.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl" <km1h@jeremy.qozzy.com>
To: <qrv@kd4e.com>; <amps@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 9:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] RF in Vehicles
RF can flow on both sides of the aircrafts skin and it appears you have a
typical common mode issue. If you would be a bit more specific about the
frequency, since VHF/UHF covers from 30 mHz to 3 gHz, a solution can be
suggested.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: <qrv@kd4e.com>
To: <amps@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2017 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Amps] RF in Vehicles
He was speaking in shorthand.
Of course the radio is the "source" of the RF.
Presuming that the coax is properly connected to the radio, the
radio is properly grounded, and the antenna is resonant then the
problem would seem to be that something is coupling the RF from
the antenna into the wiring to the Supervisory Control Panel ...
or, the RF is somehow getting back though the power supply line.
If the antenna is non-resonant, for some reason, then the coax
can unintentionally become part of the antenna system ...
1KW at VHF/UHF is a ton of RF anywhere - but in the closed system
of an aluminum container - wow. You don't have to misplace much
of that power to cause mischief.
Given your altitude I wonder about the need for so much RF power,
but that's your business.
Just one non-engineer Ham's thoughts ...
73, DavidC KD4E
So I have this airplane. Not a Cessna 150, but not a B-52 either. Jet
with with about 30 KW available as the power source. The transmitter
consists of a phased combiner with four PA stages adding up to well
over a KW in the VHF/UHF range. The antenna is a basic monopole that
uses the complete mounting base as a ground plane. This arrangement is
mounted on the aircraft centerline. The aircraft itself makes a fairly
good Faraday Shield in that it has a solid surface of aluminum that is
overlapped and bonded to the internal structure. Never-the-less, there
are several wiring bundles that connect to this transmitter assembly
for command and control that are fed inside of the aircraft and thus
by-pass the "Faraday Shield".
When the transmitter is turned on, one of the internal generators in
the aircraft immediately turns off. The generator is a 3 phase 115 VAC
400 Hz model that uses an internal permanant magnetic generator at 40
volts AC 800 Hz, that is in turn regulated to control the field of the
generator. This is controlled by a Supervisory Control Panel that
controls the field and also monitors for over/under voltage and
frequency.
Clearly the Supervisory Control Panel is being impacted by RFI thus
shutting the generator down.
The comment was: "This makes no sense. Unless something is very wrong
with the radio, there should be no RF on power or control wiring. From
an EMC point of view, the ANTENNA and it's counterpoise (metallic
parts of the vehicle) are the source of RF, NOT the radio. Clearly,
whoever at Toyota wrote this doesn't have a clue."
Ok, so what's wrong with this airplane?
Mark Bitterlich
WA3JPY
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