Very well explained Randy.
Hopefully you won't face all kind of twisted arguments after this message,
like those comparing ham radio contesting with fishing or boat sailing :-)
As you said, at a serious level, say in SOAB packet cluster can prevent you
from achieving a bigger score than what you can achieve using packet.
But still, in many cases (specially single band entries) if this
distinction continues, it just creates an opportunity for cheating.
I recall a recent very very tight competition in SOAB HP CW. Two US
stations finished a few thousand points from each others. Despite the fact
that this is just an example and both competitors are proven honest guys
with a long and impressive contesting background, no one would be able tell
if packet has been used to take advantage of just a few spots or not, even
if it is just one spot, results would not be fair.
To give you one more example about the usage of packet. During CQ WW CW 2012
SOAB HP 763 entries.
SOAB(A) HP 1084 entries.
SOAB LP 1658 entries.
SOAB(A) LP 728 entries.
Clearly LP guys don't use cluster as much as HP entrants, and that's a
logic thing. When you are LP you have to privilege rate over chasing mults
a lot more than when you are HP. It is a lot better to find by yourself
what you can hear instead of jumping in highly crowded pileups produced by
DX spots. But that doesn't mean the distinction between these two
categories is something beneficial overall for contesting, since it can be
a factor that biases the results of top entrants.
My father an I entered the ARRL 10 m 2012 MS LP for the second time. I got
a brand new 3g modem to use at his place and after a few mins we decided
not to use cluster, because it was detrimental to our QSO rate in our
little pistol station. But I certainly won't regret competing with those
who actually used this tool.
Vy 73.
Martin, LU5DX
On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 10:40 AM, Randy Thompson K5ZD <k5zd@charter.net>wrote:
> In many ways they (single ops) compete with them (assisted) now. Both are
> chasing the same contacts on the same bands. True, some people will always
> enjoy doing things the "classic" way. But, the reality is that ham radio
> is
> constantly changing.
>
> In CQWW SSB 2012 there were 7321 single operator entries. 2460 (33%) of
> them
> were in the assisted category. Looking through the scores, there are very
> few places where the top assisted score in an area beats the top single op.
>
> Most contests outside of ARRL and CQ do not distinguish between assisted
> and
> not. Most RTTY contests do not. People seem to have plenty of fun in those
> contests.
>
> Even with all single ops in one category, each person has the option to
> operate however they wish. My original point was that ham radio in the
> last
> 15 years has embraced the DX Cluster as a normal tool for DXing and
> operating. Perhaps contesting should start to accept that.
>
> Randy, K5ZD
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: CQ-Contest [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
> > Jim Jordan
> > Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2013 4:10 AM
> > To: Radio K0HB
> > Cc: cq-contest@contesting.com
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Non-assisted & Assisted
> >
> > 100% agree, Hans. Anyone who has never enjoyed the thrill of finding his
> > own contacts without assistance has never experienced real operating.
> > Fishermen catching their own shouldn't have to compete with those
> > shooting fish in a barrel.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Jim, K4QPL
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Radio K0HB" <kzerohb@gmail.com>
> > To: <k5zd@charter.net>
> > Cc: "Pete Smith N4ZR" <n4zr@contesting.com>; <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 8:50 PM
> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Non-assisted & Assisted
> >
> >
> > > Sorry Randy, but "pure" SO should NOT be required to compete with
> > assisted
> > > operators. There is no logical reason to require it.
> > >
> > > There is a large community of good contesters who wish to compete with
> > > their non-assisted peers, not with those who use outside assistance.
> > >
> > > Why does this stupid idea keep rising out of the mud?
> > >
> > > 73, de Hans, K0HB/K7
> > >
> > > On Friday, January 25, 2013, Randy Thompson K5ZD wrote:
> > >
> > >> For these contests where there is no assisted category, instead of
> > making
> > >> yet another category, why not just allow single ops to use
> > assistance?!
> > >>
> > >> Anyone licensed in the last 15 years has never experienced life
> > without
> > >> the
> > >> DX Cluster. Perhaps it is time to accept this as it is - the new
> > normal.
> > >>
> > >> Randy, K5ZD
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: CQ-Contest
> > >> > [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com<javascript:;>]
> > >> On Behalf Of
> > >> > Pete Smith N4ZR
> > >> > Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 2:32 PM
> > >> > To: cq-contest@contesting.com <javascript:;>
> > >> > Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Non-assisted & Assisted
> > >> >
> > >> > What Rich says is correct. I would just add that the ARRL 10 and
> > 160
> > >> > contests are severely anachronistic in this respect. Nobody is
> > >> > suggesting that assistance be allowed for "pure" single-ops, but
> > surely
> > >> > there should be a SOA category in these contests. That there is not
> > >> > dates
> > >> > back to the earliest days of DX clusters. To my knowledge, nobody
> > has
> > >> > advanced a reason for keeping the status quo.
> > >> >
> > >> > I have been in correspondence with the CAC and various directors
> > about
> > >> > this, and one told me that action might be taken in the January ARRL
> > >> > Board meeting, which has just taken place. Why it requires a
> > decision
> > >> > at
> > >> > that level is beyond me, but that's what we have. Now waiting for
> > >> > detailed minutes to learn what, if anything, was done.
> > >> >
> > >> > 73, Pete N4ZR
> > >> > Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at
> > >> > http://reversebeacon.net,
> > >> > blog at reversebeacon.blogspot.com.
> > >> > For spots, please go to your favorite
> > >> > ARC V6 or VE7CC DX cluster node.
> > >> >
> > >> > On 1/25/2013 8:51 AM, Richard DiDonna NN3W wrote:
> > >> > > Usually if it says nothing, the assumption is that you must
> > classify
> > >> > yourself as multi-single as the single operator rules have language
> > >> > about
> > >> > the -operator- doing all of the activity.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ARRL 160 and ARRL 10 do not have separate assisted categories -
> > >> > necessitating that assisted ops enter as multi single entries.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 73 Rich NN3W
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ----- Reply message -----
> > >> > > From: Ktfrog007@aol.com <javascript:;>
> > >> > > Date: Fri, Jan 25, 2013 7:30 am
> > >> > > Subject: [CQ-Contest] Non-assisted & Assisted
> > >> > > To: <cq-contest@contesting.com <javascript:;>>
> > >> > >
> > >> > > If a contest's rules say nothing about Assisted operation, does
> > that
> > >> > > mean it's allowed without restriction?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Note that Single-Op has no uniform definition. For example, in
> > the
> > >> > > ARRL RTTY Roundup, Single-Ops cannot be Assisted, while in the CQ
> > WPX
> > >> > > RTTY everyone can operate Assisted.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 73,
> > >> > > Kermit (Ken) AB1J
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >> > > CQ-Contest@contesting.com <javascript:;>
> > >> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >> > > CQ-Contest@contesting.com <javascript:;>
> > >> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com <javascript:;>
> > >> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> CQ-Contest mailing list
> > >> CQ-Contest@contesting.com <javascript:;>
> > >> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > 73, de Hans, K0HB
> > > "Just a boy and his radio"
> > > --
> > > Sea stories at --------> http://K0HB.wordpress.com
> > > Superstition trails ---> http://OldSlowHans.com
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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