Jack,
What an awesome idea !!!
I love this concept, and of course those that are part of Teams (in those
contest that embrace teams, not all do)
we as team members are always challenging our self to contribute a better
score as part of the team
So in that regard I guess this is not new
what is new is the mind set of building a team of like stations to compete
within that team
"alley's" if you will
So now that we kinda (or at least I) feel it's nothing new
just a different way of looking at teams
How do we encourage individuals to find someone to challenge and spread the
word.....
we need to talk it up !!!
we need to blog it, tweet it and talk about it on the air, at club meetings
where contesting might be a four letter word
to get others interested
Other wise it is this Great idea and it goes no where
other than the neighborhood alley :)
Monobanders and wires
as well as an amp or two
No 80m beams,
I'm in the really rare state of Louisiana
So who wants to play ?
I love this idea, it can work as a tool to increase interests, if we
communicate the idea from every mountain and hill top !
Cheers!
Steve
KG5VK
On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Dale Putnam <daleputnam@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Now this... makes sense!
> and here's my challange:QRP- no more than a measured 5 watts out.Antenna -
> two wire and one verticalage of op - retiredLocation - Wy .... and I don't
> believe that "WY" adds any db to my signalsingle op - single radio - single
> band - NO assistance
> UP for either 160 or 10 either one.. within the next two weeks.ANYONE????
> Have a great day,
>
>
> --... ...--
> Dale - WC7S in Wy
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2013 11:30:37 -0800
> > From: k3fiv@arrl.net
> > To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> > Subject: [CQ-Contest] Challenge Contesting
> >
> > The "don't fix what's not broken" and the "we'll never find a way that's
> > fair" observations have a lot of merit. Maybe we're working on an
> > unsolvable or nonexistent problem.
> >
> > Still, a lot of us seem to be unhappy. Maybe it's worth thinking about
> how
> > to solve that problem, without flailing to change something that isn't
> > broken and we don't think we can fix, and haven't had much success in
> > changing anyway.
> >
> > After all the recent discussions rattled around in my head for a while, a
> > new thought just popped up. At least I think it's new, at least to
> > Radiosport, but it's an ancient idea elsewhere. Maybe it's been tried
> > before and failed? KE3X's analysis of Gaming was especially useful.
> So
> > here's an idea for the mill.....
> >
> > The focus of our unhappiness seems to be a perception that "it's not
> > fair". Many of us think it's not fair, but don't agree on how to make
> it
> > more fair. We still participate, and maybe send in logs, but we seek
> the
> > experience of actually being in a fair fight, pitting ourselves against
> > contestants like ourselves, and comparing our performance against theirs
> in
> > a fair battle.
> >
> > In any contest, there are probably always at least a few people who I
> would
> > agree are enough like me that competing with them would be a fair battle.
> > The problem is that I can't find them. When I see the long list of
> > scores, I can't tell which of those callsigns are the people who were
> like
> > me, to see how I did in the company of my peers.
> >
> > Various "categories" split up the contestants into groups, but I still
> > believe that no matter what group I am in, there are others in there with
> > an unfair advantage. The only contestants who don't have this problem
> are
> > the ones who have committed the time and money, or are simply lucky
> enough
> > to live in the right place, to be "world class" in the particular
> contest's
> > "unfair" scoring scheme.
> >
> > They have sacrificed a lot to get in that situation and they enjoy
> battling
> > with others like them. More power to them. But the rest of us would
> still
> > like to enjoy the experience of competing, against our peers, in a fair
> > fight. How do we do that, in existing contests, without changing the
> > contest at all?
> >
> > An idea popped into my head. I'll call it Challenge Contesting. The
> idea
> > is that people in a contest compete with other people in the contest who
> > are, in their own opinion, sufficiently like them to make it a fair
> > fight. The key words are "in their own opinion". I'll compete with
> you
> > if I think your situation is enough like mine that it's fair - whatever I
> > think "fair" means. Of course you also have to think that it's fair -
> > whatever you think that "fair" means. I think I have a decent shot at
> > beating you. You think you have a decent shot at beating me. You're on.
> > Meet me in the Alley in 20 minutes! It's a Challenge!
> >
> > Others might decide to join in, turning our Duel into a Brawl. But if a
> > 300 pound wrestling champion, or a wiry guy wearing a black belt shows
> up,
> > the rest of us might just flee for our lives. We may enjoy a fair
> fight,
> > but we're not stupid.
> >
> > If you don't like fighting, think of something like chess matches. The
> > point is that we enjoy a fair competition, measuring our performance
> > against our peers. Could we bring that experience into contesting for
> the
> > masses in addition to the top tier?
> >
> > To issue a Challenge in a radio contest, I need to know something about
> > you. I won't "throw down the glove" until I know enough to believe I'm
> > entering a fair fight. You also need to know about me. Then we need
> to
> > both agree to compete. I Challenge you. You Accept. Meet me in the
> > Alley. Game on.
> >
> > Perhaps another contestant notices our Challenge and thinks "Hey, I'm
> like
> > those guys but I'm better than them. I Challenge both of them!" If we
> > both agree that it's fair - whatever we think "fair" means to us - then
> we
> > Accept. It'll be a three-way battle, within a group that all agree is
> fair
> > - whatever fair means to each individual.
> >
> > More people might similarly Challenge us and we might Accept them. We
> > don't Accept that wrestling champion, or the guy we suspect is a Cheater,
> > or anybody else unless we think it's fair. Although even a one-on-one
> > fight is fun, in Radiosport it would probably be more fun with more
> people
> > competing -- but all would agree that it's a fair fight. Duels could
> > readily evolve into Brawls, and that would be a good thing, more fun for
> > all. Because of the nature of Radio, we could even compete in several
> > Brawls at the same time in that same Alley. Sounds like Fun.
> >
> > So, how would we actually do this? It seems that some interesting
> > mechanisms are already in place. We could do it just by email or forums
> > like this one to start. That might get unwieldy if Challenges become
> > popular. There are already web sites that allow you to register your
> > station characteristics - where it is, what equipment you have, etc. I
> > probably need more information in order to judge whether or not the
> "other
> > guy" is enough like me so that I consider it fair. We'd have to come up
> > with that list. What do you want to know about me before you Challenge
> me,
> > or Accept my Challenge?
> >
> > We already have some mechanisms for registering our intentions before the
> > start of a contest - e.g., registering teams in some contests. So we
> need
> > a similar mechanism to enable the people who want to compete in one (or
> > more) Challenges, either Duels or Brawls to find each other.
> >
> > We like to talk about our conquests afterward. We already have
> mechanisms
> > such as 3830 to boast after the battle subsides. Some similar mechanism
> > could help us figure out how we did in that Alley shortly after the dust
> > settles.
> >
> > It seems like it should be relatively easy and straightforward for
> someone
> > with the skills to put together similar mechanisms for Challenge
> > Contesting. Contest organizers might do it, but they don't have to.
> > Anybody can set up the mechanisms to arrange for epic battles. The
> > contest builds the Alley. We do battle in it.
> >
> > We don't have to change existing contest rules at all. They are just
> part
> > of the framework - they tell us about the Alley in which we're going to
> > settle once and for all that I'm better than you in a fair fight.
> >
> > So, ... Here's an example. I'm K3FIV. I'll be operating from grid
> > CM88eu, at a height of 400 feet ASL. I have a Flex-3000, 100 watts, and
> an
> > 80M Carolina Windom hung between 2 trees at 30 feet, which i use on 80
> > through 10. I'm in a rural area so there's very little RF noise. I
> can
> > find maybe 12 hours, no more, in a weekend to do battle. I can use the
> > Internet, but I'll agree not to if you want that to Challenge me. My rig
> > has a Panadapter, which I find very helpful in contests, but I don't
> use a
> > Skimmer. I've been licensed since 1963. I can still do CW but it gets
> > real tough above 28wpm. Want to know anything else? Think you can beat
> > me?
> >
> > Note that mechanisms for arranging Challenges might be readily adapted to
> > other purposes. For example, instead of arranging for a collection of
> > entrants to compete against each other, we could use similar mechanisms
> to
> > arrange for a collection of entrants to act as a Team. Teams could form
> > and then Challenge other Teams just as individuals do, and have fun in a
> > fair - to them - competition. A Team mostly located in the Caribbean
> > might Challenge a Team mostly located on the US East Coast. With
> apologies
> > to West Side Story, we might name those Teams the Sharks and the Jets.
> It
> > could be an epic battle. It could be an annual event. It could be a lot
> > of fun both to participate and to watch.
> >
> > Challenges are somewhat like existing Categories, but offer much more
> > flexibility. Most people don't think it's fair to compete against
> someone
> > in a great location. But can your stacked-beams on a 120 foot tower fed
> > by massive amps in the hinterlands beat a vacationing ham on a Caribbean
> > island with a 100 watt transceiver and a Buddipole?
> >
> > Does your nasty HOA restrict you to stealth antennas? There are others
> > like you. Think you're better than them?
> >
> > Do you have a super station but can't spend more than 12 hours in the
> > chair? That young whippersnapper with a tribander and transceiver can
> > compete all weekend and thinks he can beat you? What do you think?
> >
> > Challenge and find out! If you both think it's a fair fight, it will be
> > fun.
> >
> > Anybody out there want to build some Challenge machinery? In much of
> the
> > world it's winter now, maybe a good time to be inside at your computer
> > rather than up wielding aluminum on a tower. It's probably also more
> fun
> > than grousing about the status quo. Tell us all where the website is for
> > setting up Challenges!
> >
> > So, we don't need to change rules or build new contests to have more fun.
> > The Alleys are already there. We may not like them, but as long as we
> > agree that it's a fair fight, why not. Game on?
> >
> > 73,
> > /Jack de K3FIV
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
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