Unfortunately the S-meter reference plane is not the antenna connector, 
but the AGC voltage at a convenient, but unstated set of conditions re 
attenuator, preamp, frequency, etc.  The key word here is "convenient" 
not 'accurate' or 'consistent'.  In this regard, ORION is better than 
some in that an effort is made to calibrate S9 (under unspecified 
conditions) to a consistent 50 microvolts (per Collins) and to maintain 
a 6 decibel S-unit interval under those same conditions. 
 
The comments about requiring information about antenna gain and line 
loss are correct, but beyond the knowledge and means of most amateurs to 
 specify accurately. 
 
Why is S-meter accuracy not better, you ask?   Not much demand for a 
measurement which is generally regarded as subjective rather than 
scientific.   Most amateur radio receivers are not intended as measuring 
instruments for RF power, frequency, and bandwidth.  A competitive 
marketplace mitigates against a higher level of measurement than is 
necessary to pursue a hobby. 
Hope this helps.... 
73, Allan, W1AEL, Sevierville, Tennessee. 
 
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 Today's Topics: 
 
   1. S meter (Martin Ewing)
   2. RE: S meter (Richard Detweiler)  
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 
 
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:08:55 -0500
From: Martin Ewing <martin@aa6e.net>
To: orion@contesting.com
Subject: [Orion] S meter
Message-ID: <40689067.8010909@aa6e.net>
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Message: 1  
The discussion about S meter calibration reminds me of a question I have for all 
the grey beards out there. 
 
If S9 = 50 uV is standard, and 6 dB per S unit (or is it 5 dB?), my question is 
what is the "reference plane" for the measurement? 
 
The useful reference, to me, should be the input connector.  If that were true, 
the S meter reading should NOT CHANGE when switching the preamp on or off or 
changing the attenuator.  This is clearly not the case with the Orion - or with 
many (all?) rigs I've used. 
 
Except for history, we would be better served by power measurements -- "Your 
sigs today are -120 dBm, old man".  Or maybe, "Your sig is 10 dB above my noise 
level." 
 
Accurate S readings (or power for that matter) aren't very meaningful if you 
don't know the antenna/feed line gain/loss.   Frequently I am getting 589 or 599 
when my Orion's meter shows S4 for the other guy. 
 
Oh well, it's a hobby! 
 
73, Martin AA6E 
 
p.s. Nice S meter stuff at http://www.geocities.com/ja1vbn2000/etc/S-unit.html 
 
------------------------------ 
 
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:32:20 -0600
From: "Richard Detweiler" <rdetweil@hotmail.com>
To: orion@contesting.com
Subject: RE: [Orion] S meter
Message-ID: <BAY1-F1650DYWutQxl500011817@hotmail.com>
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Message: 2  
Hi Martin, 
 
To add to the confusion,  When Aligning the S-Meter, I find the S-Meter is 
only calibrated for a particular frequency as well. 
 
Usually 20 Meters about 14.250 
 
I often wonder if the S-meter has any real meaning of units as it can be off 
by alot from radio to radio and from frequency to frequency. 
 
They all seem to have about the same gain needed to move up one S unit of 
6db though. 
 
Lets see, to go from S3 to S5 is a 12db gain,  so, if the transmitter was at 
100 Watts out at S3,   then be Transmitter would have to be 1600 watts out 
to make S5. 
 
73's
Rich
K5SF  
 
 
 
From: Martin Ewing <martin@aa6e.net>
To: orion@contesting.com
Subject: [Orion] S meter
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:08:55 -0500  
The discussion about S meter calibration reminds me of a question I have 
for all the grey beards out there. 
 
If S9 = 50 uV is standard, and 6 dB per S unit (or is it 5 dB?), my 
question is what is the "reference plane" for the measurement? 
 
The useful reference, to me, should be the input connector.  If that were 
true, the S meter reading should NOT CHANGE when switching the preamp on or 
off or changing the attenuator.  This is clearly not the case with the 
Orion - or with many (all?) rigs I've used. 
 
Except for history, we would be better served by power measurements -- 
"Your sigs today are -120 dBm, old man".  Or maybe, "Your sig is 10 dB 
above my noise level." 
 
Accurate S readings (or power for that matter) aren't very meaningful if 
you don't know the antenna/feed line gain/loss.   Frequently I am getting 
589 or 599 when my Orion's meter shows S4 for the other guy. 
 
Oh well, it's a hobby! 
 
73, Martin AA6E 
 
p.s. Nice S meter stuff at 
http://www.geocities.com/ja1vbn2000/etc/S-unit.html 
 
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