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Re: [RFI] COMM0N MODE NOISE OBSERVATIONS AND REPAIRS

To: <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] COMM0N MODE NOISE OBSERVATIONS AND REPAIRS
From: "Jim" <jvpoll@dallas.net>
Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 13:44:28 -0600
List-post: <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
Excellent post Ray.

I thought I would relate my experience with older,
copper-braid coaxial cable. 

Once upon a time while developing a set of Hi-Q notch
filter elements for use as a duplexer on Six meters I
was in the midst of a "desense test" (you know, inject
a weak, on-channel signal then actuate system 
transmitter while observing the decrease in receiver 
sensitivity as well as noting the type of 'noise' that
resulted when the transmitter came up).

I noticed that I could significantly 'raise' the noise in the 
receiver by moving the 'old' RG-8U braided coaxial cable 
when the transmitter was transmitting - waving a goodly 
sized piece (8 to 10 foot length of that cable) and I could 
make 'noise' that followed the 'wave' action (movement) I 
imparted on that cable; the sound was a broadband (white 
noise) 'shish' type of sound, as if a thousand (or more) 
'connections' were made and broken (as the braid made 
ohmic contact with itself during cable movement). Power 
level was about 60 watts, freq spacing R to T = 500 KHz.

I never tried performing any 'intermodulation' tests to measure
the 'dynamic range' of that old coax; your post brought this
little observation back to mind and just what problems like
ohmic, rusted, oxidized copper conductors can create.

Jim WB5WPA


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Dxhogg@aol.com>
To: <rfi@contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: [RFI] COMM0N MODE NOISE OBSERVATIONS AND REPAIRS 






----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Dxhogg@aol.com>
To: <rfi@contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 8:57 AM
Subject: [RFI] COMM0N MODE NOISE OBSERVATIONS AND REPAIRS 


> 
> I had posted about a week ago about common mode  
> noise and what I had thought was a really awesome  
> "repair". Well, the repair really works but along the  
> road of determining what was really at play creating  
> all the different noises I have discovered all of the 
> problems in the station was of poor infrastructure. 
> 
> I had originally wired the operating position all 
> station grounds and interstation cabling about 18 years 
> ago. Well to put it in simple terms it was all junk. 
> 
> Wall warts, braided cable for grounds, and poor quality  
> coax were the real culprits. 
> 
> Pay extra attention to ground loops -
> 
> - Wall warts are a prime cause of ground loops - cut all 
>   the cables off the warts and use only the cable 
>   and use a good quality 10 amp power supply for all the 
>   ancillary station equipment. 
> 
> - Multiple antennas and feed lines should all be kept 
>   galvanically separated from one another till the cables 
>   are connected at your main station bulkhead. What I mean 
>   by 'separated' is don't use the ground for a 160 meter 
>   "inverted L" as a tower ground etc. 
> 
> Look at your station layout in a ground loop aspect you will 
> be amazed [th]at isolating these problems clean up the noise 
> floor. I had a terrible noise on 160m that seemed to follow the 
> resonant FREQ of the transmit antenna when I would disconnect 
> the open wire feed from the tuner the noise on  the receive 
> antennas would disappear..... Well it turns out that in 1945 
> when Technical Materials Corp built this unit using braid as 
> interconnecting leads was cool - not so my tuner was a 
> rebroadcaster....all the junk braid replaced with 1/4 inch 
> tubing and quiet bands again ... this [should be] a wake up 
> call look at your station your neighbors WiFI stuff my be 
> heard because of a rectifying [junction] in your station...
> simple things like coax connectors with the shield not  
> soldered correctly will cause a hell of a lot of problems.
> 
> dx  on   Ray  NR1R 
> 
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