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Re: [RFI] Birdies every 8.5 kHz

To: Steve <aa4v@bellsouth.net>, "rfi@contesting.com" <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Birdies every 8.5 kHz
From: "Hare, Ed W1RFI" <w1rfi@arrl.org>
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 21:35:45 +0000
List-post: <rfi@contesting.com">mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
"Birdies" can mean any of a number of things. They could be rock-steady 
carriers, they could be the modulation or modulation sidebands of a digital 
signal or they could simply be broad peaks in the noise from a switching power 
supply. Even switchers can range from being almost carriers to just being board 
peaks of noise every 5 to 100 kHz spacing or so.

It is generally pretty easy to tell switching supplies from digital devices. In 
a digital device, the signals will generally be rather stable in frequency.  In 
a switcher, as the device warm up, those carriers or noise peaks will drift.  
Also, switchers tend to change frequency with slight power glitches, so you 
will occasionally hear it burble just a bit when there is voltage peak or dip.

No one that I know of has a data base that could indicate what particular model 
numbers of devices might have undescribed birdies at certain intervals.  With 
switching power supplies, the exact free-running frequency of the switching 
signals does not need to be accurately controlled, so one device could have 
noise ever 8.5 kHz, while the next might be as low as 8 kHz, for example.   
Even if you knew that a Sheetzu Model 123 had noise every 8 kHz, so might an 
Acme Model 234, and "knowing" the wrong model might be somewhat confusing.

In reality,  even if you did know that it was an Acme 234, if you didn't own 
one, that is not a very good place to start. What count more is not, "What is 
it?," but "Where is it?"  Once you know where it is, you can use better 
techniques than hoping that someone else's information is pointing to the right 
model number in a neighbor's house.

Most of the time, the problem is in YOUR house, unless you are in an apartment 
building.  Sometimes, a device in a home connected to the same secondary wiring 
as your home can be a noise problem. Rarely, it is a device farther away.  

Start with your own house. Using a battery operated receiver, turn off the main 
breaker to your house. If the noise goes away, turn on your breakers one at a 
time, and when the noise comes back, look to see that is plugged in.  Almost 
every device sold today uses a switching supply and some can be noisy. 

I can't emphasize enough how important this step is.  ARRL has dozens of cases 
where a ham refused to do this test, "knowing" that it could not be in his 
home, spending hours on the phone, hours asking friends to help and hours 
scouring the neighborhood, only to discover a battery charger left plugged in 
somewhere in his garage.

If it is a neighboring device, it may take a bit of detective work to find it.  
First, ask yourself what you will do if you find it.  If you would choose to 
not confront a neighbor to correct the problem, you may choose to just live 
with the noise, so why find it at all?  If it's not in your house, and you 
don't want to spend hours tracking it down, or will not approach the neighbor, 
you can consider other solutions. Sometimes, the noise cancellers such as sold 
by MFJ can significantly reduce the noise from a single source.  They are trick 
to set up, and it's a bit painful to have retune them every 10 kHz of so, but 
that may be a solution for some people.

On HF, DFing loops can sometimes pinpoint the house. I have found houses with 
3.5 MHz devices in them, so it is possible to find noises that come from houses 
that way. Loops don't work well for power-line noises, because the noise comes 
from the entire line.

If you have a portable receiver with an S meter, you may be able to find the 
house using it.  You may need an attenuator to reduce the signal a bit.  You 
want to place a receiver and antenna at a specific short distance from the 
electrical wiring in any suspect building.  In some neighborhoods, you may be 
able to get close to an external light or the AC power meter.  If you are 
3-feet away from the building wiring, it will be much stronger in the offending 
house than other houses.   You can now approach the house occupant to see what 
may be the problem.

Understand that these people will NOT know RF and will not understand the 
rules. You are telling them that the device they just bought brand new at Wally 
Depot is being operated in violation of a federal law they don't understand. 
Diplomacy and empathy for their not knowing the rules is critical.  If you do 
approach a neighbor, I suggest that you initially describe the problem as an 
"interesting" problem. They may have radio noise in their own home, and very 
rarely, a noisy device can represent a failure in progress and may pose a 
safety hazard. 

The "neighbor" discussion can be the most challenging part of resolving the 
problem. I can tell you that making statements about your rights, and how they 
are breaking the law and other similar approaches will NOT result in a neighbor 
that is willing to talk to you. What is said in those first few seconds sets 
the tone for all that follows, so make your opening a good one, and be 
neighborly.

Ed Hare, W1RFI


-----Original Message-----
From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 2:35 PM
To: rfi@contesting.com
Subject: [RFI] Birdies every 8.5 kHz


I have birdies appearing every 8.5 kHz (or so) on 40 through 10 meters on my 
scope (P3). Anyone have any idea what it might be?
Steve AA4V


Sent from my I-Phone
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