Jim,
>>Another point -- by all means contact the installer and manufacturer and
demand that they fix their problem, and at their expense. Any product or
system that fails or does bad things in the presence of RF is defective.
73, Jim K9YC
I am unclear about this. It is my understanding that the person causing an RFI
problem (me) is the one who is responsible for correcting the problem.
Stan, K4SBZ
(850) 893-5003 (H) (850) 590-6617 (M)
"Real radio bounces off the sky."
> On Aug 17, 2015, at 10:05 PM, rfi-request@contesting.com wrote:
>
> Send RFI mailing list submissions to
> rfi@contesting.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RFI With Smoke Detectors (Stan Zawrotny)
> 2. Re: RFI With Smoke Detectors (Frank N. Haas KB4T)
> 3. Re: Strange Birdie (Gary Smith)
> 4. Re: RFI With Smoke Detectors (EDWARDS, EDDIE J)
> 5. Re: RFI With Smoke Detectors (Jim Brown)
> 6. Re: RFI With Smoke Detectors (Stan Zawrotny)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:16:41 -0400
> From: Stan Zawrotny <k4sbz.stan@gmail.com>
> To: RFI@contesting.com
> Subject: [RFI] RFI With Smoke Detectors
> Message-ID:
> <CAPPCcb7xPn3ihxBPdY+Dn1YGzESfK6wwOtiOMq8eNRsgFnHxhw@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I have an RFI problem with my smoke detectors. The house has USI Electric
> Inc. Model USI 1208 smoke detectors installed throughout. Mostly when I
> operate on 40 meters, but also on 80, 15 and occasionally on 20 (not
> often), the smoke detector in my office where my FTdx5000 is located will
> chirp intermittently. It doesn?t start right away and will sometimes pause
> for long periods of time.
>
>
>
> 433.93 MHz is one frequency used by smoke detectors. It is the 60th
> harmonic of 7.232 MHz, a 40 M SSB frequency. The chirping will occur when I
> am operating as low as the RTTY band (7.025 ? 7.125).
>
>
>
> I have tried installing toroids from a Polomar ?RFI kit? without luck. I
> also installed an MFJ-704 low-pass filter in the antenna line, also with no
> results.
>
>
>
> I disconnected the smoke detector in my office and the smoke detector in
> the foyer began to chirp. Because they are RF connected, another one in a
> distant part of the house also chirps.
>
>
>
> I suspect that the close proximity of the rig to the smoke detectors just
> overpowers the toroids and that enough RF gets out from the transmitter and
> the short coax to negate the effectiveness of the low-pass filter.
>
>
>
> Is there anything else that I can do so that I can operate on 40 meters
> without upsetting the family?
> ___________________
> Stan Zawrotny, K4SBZ
> K4SBZ.Stan@Gmail.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 15:41:40 -0400
> From: "Frank N. Haas KB4T" <utility.rfi.pro@gmail.com>
> To: rfi@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] RFI With Smoke Detectors
> Message-ID:
> <CAKX3PcA-ZHSGqLO6F0qsroSQtNNqBwL8fBfT9gfe4mMEGPNbCQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Stan:
>
> Does the interference to the smoke detectors occur at very low RF
> output...say 5 or 10 watts? Or does it occur only AT higher output levels.
>
> Can you get schematics for the smoke detectors?
>
> Have you attempted to contact the importer or manufacturer to inquire about
> the application of bypass caps to AC power lines or battery leads as well
> as other parts of the device to minimize the effect of RF on the chirp
> circuit?
>
> In the short term, disabling the offending devices except when testing is
> one way to cope. Battery operated spares can be temporarily placed while
> you sort thus out.
>
> What sort of antennas are you using and how high are they?
>
> 73,
>
> Frank N. Haas KB4T
> Utility Interference Investigator
> ARRL Tech Specialist, RFI, N FL Section
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:17:06 -0700
> From: Gary Smith <wa6fgi@yahoo.com>
> To: rfi@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Strange Birdie
> Message-ID: <55D24142.8050108@yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>
> To clarify:
> Jr radios were at the top end of the band, Futaba was on the lower edge.
> I know `cause I flew Futaba years ago.
> Gary...wa6fgi
>
>> On 8/16/2015 12:02 PM, David Harmon wrote:
>> Tom....those freqs are not even close to any R/C activity on the ARRL band
>> plan.
>> http://www.arrl.org/band-plan
>>
>> Most of the R/C activity was on 53.100 and up every 100kc to 53.800 anyway.
>> There are so few 6m repeaters and so little activity in the upper part of
>> the band that guys were not happy going to the lower freqs in the ARRL band
>> plan.
>> Occasionally channel 2 TV stations might interfere with the upper freq....I
>> think it was 53.8....but now that TV transmission has changed
>> frequency....there shouldn't be any problems.
>> But as Gary said....flying on 2.4G has totally resolved the interference
>> problem.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> David Harmon
>> K6XYZ
>> Sperry, OK
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Gary Smith via
>> RFI
>> Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 12:23 PM
>> To: rfi@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [RFI] Strange Birdie
>>
>> To the group.
>>
>> This could be someone with a old R/C aircraft transmitter on 50 MHz.
>> There was 10 channels at the low end of six meters that were (by gentleman's
>> agreement) for the purpose of r/c flight years ago.
>>
>> Just a guess, as almost all r/c flying is now on 2.4 GHz.
>>
>> Gary...wa6fgi
>>
>>> On 8/14/2015 5:15 AM, Tom Lizak wrote:
>>> I have been having a strange "birdie", which is not coming from this
>>> QTH but bearing around 60 degrees (NE) from my QTH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This started about 3-4 weeks ago and is on 50.098. It is a carrier
>>> but sounds like there is which sounds like data, being sent
>>> periodically. It is present in the early mornings. This seems to
>>> repeat itself every 100KHz or so (e.g. 50.098, 50.198..............51.498,
>> etc.). I am using the CW mode.
>>> Since I'm not at the radio all the time, I did notice that it was not
>>> present one evening @ 9pm !
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I do not have any HF antennas erected at present, just the 6m yagi on
>>> the tower and 30m 4sq array but didn't notice anything on that band !
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The only thing I can think of is someone has a defective modem/router
>>> in a neighboring house to the N/NE of my QTH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Tom/k1tl...
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> RFI mailing list
>>> RFI@contesting.com
>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>> _______________________________________________
>> RFI mailing list
>> RFI@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> RFI mailing list
>> RFI@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 20:32:30 +0000
> From: "EDWARDS, EDDIE J" <eedwards@oppd.com>
> To: "'Stan Zawrotny'" <k4sbz.stan@gmail.com>, "RFI@contesting.com"
> <RFI@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] RFI With Smoke Detectors
> Message-ID:
> <D06D412B23374243B17AF061115E4D3C58FD0DEF@SECEX733.oppd.oppd-ds.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> " I disconnected the smoke detector in my office and the smoke detector in
> the foyer began to chirp. Because they are RF connected, another one in a
> distant part of the house also chirps."
> ...and...
> "433.93 MHz is one frequency used by smoke detectors."
>
> Are they supposed to chirp when another detector is removed or disabled?
>
> Does this mean they are in constant or periodic communications with one
> another?
>
> Is more than one frequency being used to intercommunicate between detectors?
>
> Do they have an internal or external antenna on the units?
>
> Have you contacted the vendor about this RFI?
>
> You have a somewhat unusual configuration compared to most that just install
> battery operated, independent units.
>
> 73, de ed -K0iL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Stan Zawrotny
> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 2:17 PM
> To: RFI@contesting.com
> Subject: [RFI] RFI With Smoke Detectors
>
> External Email Notice Think before you click! Email sent from
> rfi-bounces@contesting.com
>
> I have an RFI problem with my smoke detectors. The house has USI Electric
> Inc. Model USI 1208 smoke detectors installed throughout. Mostly when I
> operate on 40 meters, but also on 80, 15 and occasionally on 20 (not
> often), the smoke detector in my office where my FTdx5000 is located will
> chirp intermittently. It doesn?t start right away and will sometimes pause
> for long periods of time.
>
>
>
> 433.93 MHz is one frequency used by smoke detectors. It is the 60th
> harmonic of 7.232 MHz, a 40 M SSB frequency. The chirping will occur when I
> am operating as low as the RTTY band (7.025 ? 7.125).
>
>
>
> I have tried installing toroids from a Polomar ?RFI kit? without luck. I
> also installed an MFJ-704 low-pass filter in the antenna line, also with no
> results.
>
>
>
> I disconnected the smoke detector in my office and the smoke detector in
> the foyer began to chirp. Because they are RF connected, another one in a
> distant part of the house also chirps.
>
>
>
> I suspect that the close proximity of the rig to the smoke detectors just
> overpowers the toroids and that enough RF gets out from the transmitter and
> the short coax to negate the effectiveness of the low-pass filter.
>
>
>
> Is there anything else that I can do so that I can operate on 40 meters
> without upsetting the family?
> ___________________
> Stan Zawrotny, K4SBZ
> K4SBZ.Stan@Gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> This e-mail contains Omaha Public Power District's confidential and
> proprietary information and is for use only by the intended recipient.
> Unless explicitly stated otherwise, this e-mail is not a contract offer,
> amendment, or acceptance. If you are not the intended recipient you are
> notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in
> reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 13:45:35 -0700
> From: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> To: rfi@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] RFI With Smoke Detectors
> Message-ID: <55D247EF.9010509@audiosystemsgroup.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>> On Mon,8/17/2015 12:16 PM, Stan Zawrotny wrote:
>> 433.93 MHz is one frequency used by smoke detectors. It is the 60th
>> harmonic of 7.232 MHz, a 40 M SSB frequency. The chirping will occur when I
>> am operating as low as the RTTY band (7.025 ? 7.125).
>
> It is VERY unlikely that the problem is caused by harmonics of the
> transmitter. FAR more likely that radiation from your antenna is
> coupling to wiring for the smoke detectors, which act as receiving
> antennas, and are exciting Pin One Problems in the detectors.
>
> The most likely solution is the addition of a ferrite common mode choke
> to every wire connected to a detector that has the problem. The chokes
> MUST be multiple turns on #31 or #43 cores, with enough turns to move
> the resonance to the band(s) where you have problems. For more on this,
> study k9yc.com/RFI-Ham.pdf
>
> If the alarm is AC powered, the power wiring is often the antenna. If
> your unit(s) can be run from batteries, install batteries and disconnect
> them from AC. If that cures the RFI, power wiring is the RX antenna. If
> you want to continue using AC power, you'll need to wind the choke on a
> small AC cable that you place in series between the unit and the AC
> line. If there's no room to install the choke, you're probably stuck
> with running on battery.
>
> FWIW -- security system products are notorious for RFI susceptibility.
>
> Another point -- by all means contact the installer and manufacturer and
> demand that they fix their problem, and at their expense. Any product or
> system that fails or does bad things in the presence of RF is defective.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2015 21:34:20 -0400
> From: Stan Zawrotny <k4sbz.stan@gmail.com>
> To: "EDWARDS, EDDIE J" <eedwards@oppd.com>
> Cc: "RFI@contesting.com" <RFI@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] RFI With Smoke Detectors
> Message-ID:
> <CAPPCcb4X2erJWftcsKk6TfgcA0F6hn9OqOSXCqxSniT2Yq4B=Q@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> ??
>>> Are they supposed to chirp when another detector is removed or disabled?
> They didn't chirp because they were removed. They were chirping because of
> the RFI.
>
>>> Does this mean they are in constant or periodic communications with one
> another?
> When one detector has an "event," it communicates with the entire network.
> This is normal.
>
>>> Is more than one frequency being used to intercommunicate between
> detectors?
> They only use one frequency.
>
>>> Do they have an internal or external antenna on the units?
> There is no visible antenna.
>
>>> Have you contacted the vendor about this RFI?
> I emailed the manufacturer, but they did not respond.
>
>>> You have a somewhat unusual configuration compared to most that just
> install battery operated, independent units.
> Actually not. Wireless smoke detector systems are very common. If one
> detector alerts, it alerts all detectors throughout the house. Each unit is
> battery operated. But independent units are not installed in modern homes
> any more.
>
> ___________________
> Stan Zawrotny, K4SBZ
> (850) 893-5003 (h) (850) 590-6617 (m)
> K4SBZ.Stan@Gmail.com
>
> Real radio bounces off the sky.
>
>
>> On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 4:32 PM, EDWARDS, EDDIE J <eedwards@oppd.com> wrote:
>>
>> " I disconnected the smoke detector in my office and the smoke detector in
>> the foyer began to chirp. Because they are RF connected, another one in a
>> distant part of the house also chirps."
>> ...and...
>> "433.93 MHz is one frequency used by smoke detectors."
>>
>> Are they supposed to chirp when another detector is removed or disabled?
>>
>> Does this mean they are in constant or periodic communications with one
>> another?
>>
>> Is more than one frequency being used to intercommunicate between
>> detectors?
>>
>> Do they have an internal or external antenna on the units?
>>
>> Have you contacted the vendor about this RFI?
>>
>> You have a somewhat unusual configuration compared to most that just
>> install battery operated, independent units.
>>
>> 73, de ed -K0iL
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Stan Zawrotny
>> Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 2:17 PM
>> To: RFI@contesting.com
>> Subject: [RFI] RFI With Smoke Detectors
>>
>> External Email Notice Think before you click! Email sent from
>> rfi-bounces@contesting.com
>>
>> I have an RFI problem with my smoke detectors. The house has USI Electric
>> Inc. Model USI 1208 smoke detectors installed throughout. Mostly when I
>> operate on 40 meters, but also on 80, 15 and occasionally on 20 (not
>> often), the smoke detector in my office where my FTdx5000 is located will
>> chirp intermittently. It doesn?t start right away and will sometimes pause
>> for long periods of time.
>>
>>
>>
>> 433.93 MHz is one frequency used by smoke detectors. It is the 60th
>> harmonic of 7.232 MHz, a 40 M SSB frequency. The chirping will occur when I
>> am operating as low as the RTTY band (7.025 ? 7.125).
>>
>>
>>
>> I have tried installing toroids from a Polomar ?RFI kit? without luck. I
>> also installed an MFJ-704 low-pass filter in the antenna line, also with no
>> results.
>>
>>
>>
>> I disconnected the smoke detector in my office and the smoke detector in
>> the foyer began to chirp. Because they are RF connected, another one in a
>> distant part of the house also chirps.
>>
>>
>>
>> I suspect that the close proximity of the rig to the smoke detectors just
>> overpowers the toroids and that enough RF gets out from the transmitter and
>> the short coax to negate the effectiveness of the low-pass filter.
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there anything else that I can do so that I can operate on 40 meters
>> without upsetting the family?
>> ___________________
>> Stan Zawrotny, K4SBZ
>> K4SBZ.Stan@Gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> RFI mailing list
>> RFI@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> This e-mail contains Omaha Public Power District's confidential and
>> proprietary information and is for use only by the intended recipient.
>> Unless explicitly stated otherwise, this e-mail is not a contract offer,
>> amendment, or acceptance. If you are not the intended recipient you are
>> notified that disclosing, copying, distributing or taking any action in
>> reliance on the contents of this information is strictly prohibited.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of RFI Digest, Vol 151, Issue 13
> ************************************
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