HI Gordon -- I have read about the 4.3125 standard spacing - This Clink system
is within a hz of 4 khz, for instance 7007.783 , 7011.783 .. There now happens
to be another set also spaced exactly 4 khz - but offset by about 44 hz. I was
not seeing that before the new cable. Why Clink is not using an "industry
standard" I have no idea. It might be because AT&T owned these lines circa
1970s - started carrying Uverse - which I had - then Qwest bought the
frranchise from ATT and dropped the Uverse and we went to DirecTV . Now Clink
is pushing their "Prism" TV So the basic plant may be from some time ago . I am
still using the same modem I started with with AT&T , Clink limits me to 20
mbps internet because of that modem but it does all we need. . When this mess
started a little over a year ago , at first there would be periods of no
carriers at all. Then if I transmitted on160 with even 1 watt !!!! carriers
would start appearing and the longer I transmitted - more carriers would
appear . At 1500 watts , carriers would appear as a full comb from somewhere
just above 1700 khz to about 2100 khz . After a month or so the carriers would
be there all the time maybe not a full comb but then it would add carriers as I
transmitted and the longer I transmitted or at higher power - the system would
raise the level of the carriers . I have EXCEL spread sheets of the early
progression - its almost funny . I dont see that behavior anymore - carriers
always there and very little increase in max carrier levels as I transmit . But
the bottom line still remains - why I seem to be the only guy in the world
seeing this is beyond me. I certainly am not in a noise free environment -
buried in a sea of other noise. With regard to getting Clink to do anything -
that is a whole different problem. And what I presented was only the tip of the
iceberg in interacting with Clink and their tech. (not the Ham - but the ham
was called in because the first tech said "he could not ta
lk to me " . What he really means is he has absolutely zero RF knowledge and
refused to even look at my data or listen to the carriers . ( He is the
"expert" on ADSL/VDSL , teaches the courses to other techs ) He informed me
about 5 minutes after arriving that this was not his first Rodeo and at the end
of the frst day after about 6 hours of twiddling with the pairs from the DSLAM
to my house with zero effect refused to give me a contact number or his
employee number or even his name - and "johnny" was all I needed to know. He
even threatened to turn me into the FCC as I was interfering with their system
!!!!!!!! I will admit I did retort - that would be great - please do. The ONLY
number I have with Clink is thru the Engineer in Denver. (And if I am to
believe the Denver guy - (which I do because he has worked with W0IVJ) it took
him about 3 weeks to even find a contact for him to get anyone out here in
Phoenix. (And even though the Denver Engineer had identified the exact
source customer , the "expert"(who said he knew that ) refused to even look at
that customer. So you see my dilemma ??? 73 Hank K7HP ----- Original Message
-----
> Hank,
> xDSL subcarriers are every 4.3125 kHz. That is a common industry
> standard.
> You will probably see carriers between 138 kHz and about 8.5 MHz,
> though you
> could see them up to 17 MHz if the carrier is using extended
> subcarriers.
> This range is broken up into uplinks and downlinks and are well
> documented
> in various Internet web sources. There is a cable/telco industry
> practice
> to leave installed cabling in place unless there is a pressing need to
> remove it. You will need to escalate to the carrier and get them to
> remove
> the unterminated wiring.
> 73,
> Gordon Beattie, W2TTT
> 201.314.6964
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI [mailto:rfi-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of HankP
> Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 3:26 PM
> To: rfi <rfi@contesting.com>
> Subject: [RFI] 4khz Spectrum comb ADSL2 one last try composed as text
> If this does not work I give up - I apologize for this mess -- Hank
> K7HP
> I have seen nothing on this reflector about carriers every 4 khz from
> Centurylink ADSL2 systems . (or any other system)
> Here is my short version of about 75 days with Clink.
> A year ago Clink finally reduced the carriers on 160 from almost S9
> (-73
> dBm) out of noise to about my noise level (-100--105dBm) .Took an
> Engineer
> from Clink in Denver turning off customers from Denver while I watched
> the
> comb to absolutely identify the customer modem source.Then it took
> over a
> month for him to even find someone in Phoenix to address the issue.
> Clink
> tech did everything under the sun except address that customer - then
> two
> weeks later they sent out same tech along with another tech who was a
> Ham
> and had some idea of what a RF Carrier was. Again they addressed
> evertthing
> from the DSLAM to my house with no effect (EVEN though they knew the
> customer who had been identified by Denver) .
> FInally I got them to walk the alley with me and my 160 portable DF
> rx. The
> Ham pulled out a MFJ VHF noise receiver and we walked the alley They
> contended the problem was APS .. Nope ,its carriers guys , not noise.(
> I had
> P3 spectrum plots showing the carriers every 4 khz - did not mean
> anything
> to them- and after every change I woudl go back and run and print
> another
> plot ) I showed them (they could listen to the speaker on my Rx.) how
> loud
> the carriers got 100 feet or so either side of that identified
> customer.
> The original tech left and the Ham stayed with me . I took the ferrite
> rod/jfet source follower DFing assy I have off the R10 rx and just put
> the
> little rubber ducky whip on it and asked him to go probe in his access
> taps
> and see how loud the carriers were there . He did so and admitted .Yep
> its
> in our system.
> The original tech came back and they identified numerous problems -
> among
> which was an open pair to that customer which was forcing that modem
> to run
> wide open (100 mw per carrier) . Interesting that the Clink Engineer
> told me
> tey had 3 other customers within about 400 feet who either had no VDSL
> or
> drastically reduced internet speeds. Anyhow they found a tap that had
> leaked
> and said everything was so corroded they were reluctant to do any work
> there
> and a crew would have to come ot and re do the whole thing . They did
> replace the customer drop with a new "improved bonded and shielded
> pair "
> and were able to find a pair to replace the open. This got the
> carriers to
> just at my noise level - and they said since te customer was not at
> home -
> they would have to contact him to check it (I doubt they ever did as
> the
> carriers never changed - and virtually every half hour their
> supervisor was
> calling asking why it was taking so long , this was costing Clink
> money- and
> they could no t afford to be worrying about this stuff !!!!! )
> Well about a year passed - here come a bunch of trucks and they ran a
> second
> cable - then about a month later a guy comes and puts new access taps
> on
> the new cable , and a week or so later they moved some customers to
> the new
> taps -BUT left the old wires just hnaging - in fcat the hoiuse behind
> me
> they just took the junction box off the wall , threw it over the fence
> into
> alley with wires to the old cable still in place !!!! iIts still
> hanging
> there ) Other places they just cut off the cable and left it hanging
> down
> in the breeze.
> SOOOOO now I have carriers on 40 meters 7 to 15 dB out of my noise
> -100--105
> dBM on 40) , on 160 5 to 7 dB out of my noise and about at noise on 80
> . I
> actually see two carriers on 40 about 44 hz apart probably fromtwo
> different
> modems.
> 40M RX ant is M2 40M1L at 50 feet -- I can null the carriers down to
> noise
> off end (perpendicular to phone cable)
> I have talked to W0IVJ , I have talked with Mike Gruber of ARRL and
> both
> say they have not seen these carriers and I am the only one reporting
> them
> !!!!!!!!!
> Curious - anyone else seeing this stuff ?? Or am i just Lucky Pierre ?
> Hank K7HP
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