I would like to think that Solar Edge, Tesla and others would respond to
anything that could hamper their business. They're not altruistic, just
realistic businessmen. If the "operator of the system" experiences grief
over neighbor complaints and his installer/equipment vendor won't address
it (hey, it's your problem now Mr. Customer), what kind of recommendation
do you think that neighbor gives to his friends and the friends then
repeat? From a business standpoint it's easier to address the <1% field
problem than have bad-mouthing occur about your product. If necessary ask
your neighbor to ask his vendor why they're not backing him up.
Lawyers rarely solve problems. Engineers do.
Let's all listen to Ed and keep it on the technical path.
Dennis AE6C
On Wed, Dec 18, 2019 at 12:57 PM <rfi-request@contesting.com> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI (Hare, Ed W1RFI)
> 2. Re: Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI (Hare, Ed W1RFI)
> 3. Re: Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI (Hare, Ed W1RFI)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:42:20 +0000
> From: "Hare, Ed W1RFI" <w1rfi@arrl.org>
> To: Dave Cole <dave@nk7z.net>, "rfi@contesting.com"
> <rfi@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI
> Message-ID:
> <
> MWHPR16MB1597C1860ED3F721888B657C98530@MWHPR16MB1597.namprd16.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Actually, we don?t mind getting those reports. In general, Solar Edge has
> been scheduling repairs and getting them done eventually, but if that
> process fails for any reason, we can talk to Solar Edge and get things back
> on track.
>
> We need to do more on our web page.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Dave Cole
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 9:54 PM
> To: rfi@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI
>
> Is there an appropriate path for sharing? I suspect neither Ed nor Paul,
> would like getting every RFI report in their respective mail box...
>
> As of now, I think the only path for sharing this sort of information is
> to send it to Paul. Paul may not want every RFI complaint sent to him for
> sharing... Some direction from the ARRL would be helpful here.
>
> This leaves at least the following four questions:
>
> 0. Should we report all cases of RFI solved and unsolved to the ARRL?
>
> 1. What, if any, is the approved method for getting reports to the ARRL
> for successful resolutions, and for failed resolutions of RFI incidents?
>
> 3. Does the League have a page showing what they are doing in general for
> RFI mitigation in the industry? Not individual cases, but an update page
> as to what the ARRL did this month to fight RFI... The last update to the
> FCC page was in 2018.
>
> I could go on, but you get the idea... If the ARRL wants to be the
> coordinating body, then the ARRL needs to provide a method of reporting,
> that does not hammer the individuals, but allow the ARRL to get an overview
> of just how bad it is out here-- and it is bad...
>
> The local Bi-Mart is selling Chinese grow lights for 40 bucks each here in
> Oregon, they have a shelf full of them, and none of them have any FCC
> markings on the light, or the instructions... Each kit consists of LEDs in
> a bar configuration, and a big hurking SMPS.
>
> I remember when the ARRL created an almost perfect case for RFI with Home
> Depot... What happened to that? I have heard the FCC did nothing...
>
> If the ARRL creates everything the FCC needs, and the FCC does nothing,
> all the reporting in the world to the ARRL won't help...
>
> I fear for our hobby...
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 12/15/19 6:11 PM, Gary wrote:
> > Paul is a good guy as is Ed Hare at the ARRL
> > http://www.arrl.org/edward-f-hare-jr
> >
> > The league is working this issue pretty hard, but since the league is
> all of us (members anyway) we need to document what we come across in the
> way of RFI and work with our neighbors when we can. Sharing that info with
> the league is a very good idea.
> >
> > 73,
> > Joe kk0sd
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: RFI <rfi-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of Dave Cole
> > Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 7:17 PM
> > Cc: <Rfi@contesting.com> <rfi@contesting.com>
> > Subject: Re: [RFI] Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI
> >
> > I have worked with Paul as well, he is good folk, and will assist...
> >
> > Don't wait for RFI to find you, approach your ARRL Directors now...
> > Bring up RFI, and ask for reports as to what is happening RFI wise at
> the ARRL.
> >
> > 73, and thanks,
> > Dave (NK7Z)
> > https://www.nk7z.net
> > ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> > ARRL Technical Specialist
> > ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
> >
> > On 12/15/19 5:08 PM, Jamie WW3S wrote:
> >> I've had good luck contacting Paul W1VLF at the ARRL, I think he is
> >> the new (relatively) RFI guy.? Paul started the case with Solar Edge,
> >> and I was later contacted by TJ, a senior field engineer with Solar
> >> Edge. Its my understanding TJ, and a couple of installers, visit
> >> installation like my neighbors to retrofit them with updated
> >> components. Now, a couple of flies in the ointment, it hasn't been
> >> fixed....yet....parts were supposed to be ordered in mid August, with
> >> a 10 week delivery time. That should have been early November but he
> >> was involved with a service emergency in CA, due to the wildfires.
> >> Also, Solar Edge is the vendor, not the retailer, so they (Green
> >> Solar
> >> Tech) need to get involved.....now, the final fly, and one that
> >> concerns me the most is I sent TJ a copy of the QST article from
> >> April 2016, by Tony K1KP, that details the fix for Solar Edge
> >> systems, and the response I received was "Yes, I'm familiar with the
> >> article, and it is wrong".....so.....I'm still cautiously optimistic
> >> that this will be resolved, but I'm concerned the method they will be
> >> using.....so contact Paul at the ARRL (copy your director as
> >> well)...Paul is very responsive and has the contacts with Solar Edge
> >> to get the process started, and he has been up front during this whole
> process......Merry Christmas to all.....
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------ Original Message ------
> >> From: "Stan Zawrotny" <k4sbz.stan@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:k4sbz.stan@gmail.com>>
> >> To: "Dave Cole" <dave@nk7z.net <mailto:dave@nk7z.net>>
> >> Cc: "<Rfi@contesting.com <mailto:Rfi@contesting.com>>"
> >> <rfi@contesting.com <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>>
> >> Sent: 12/15/2019 5:59:35 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [RFI] Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI
> >>
> >>> Our "class action" vehicle, as was already pointed out, is the ARRL.
> >>> As part of their charter to protect our spectrum and represent their
> >>> members in all aspects of the hobby, they need to step up to the
> >>> plate and take charge of the Solar RFI problem. They, in turn, need
> >>> to (1) contact offending companies, and (2) pressure the FCC to
> >>> become aware of the entire noise level problem and start enforcing
> >>> their rules.
> >>> Stan, K4SBZ
> >>> On Sun, Dec 15, 2019 at 4:58 PM Dave Cole <dave@nk7z.net
> >>> <mailto:dave@nk7z.net>> wrote:
> >>>> Hi Jim,
> >>>> Respectfully, in every case here but one, (and I have been involved
> >>>> in maybe 10 to 15 in the past three years), the RFI from grow ops
> >>>> were unheard on the AM band with a local station tuned in, and
> >>>> while in front of the offending grow op.
> >>>> I am sure that in some cases it is hearable on an AM channel, but
> >>>> so far here, (and I have expressly, checked at each location), I
> >>>> have had very little luck with this. It is one of the first things
> >>>> I check for, so I can involve the CE of the AM station being
> affected...
> >>>> 73, and thanks,
> >>>> Dave (NK7Z)
> >>>> https://www.nk7z.net
> >>>> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> >>>> ARRL Technical Specialist
> >>>> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources On 12/15/19
> >>>> 11:26 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> >>>>> On 12/15/2019 6:40 AM, Dave Cole wrote:
> >>>>>> The problem with that approach is that most AM stations are
> >>>>>> strong enough to override RFI, in most locations, on the AM
> broadcast band.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's not even close to being true. More than 30 years ago, a
> >>>> colleague
> >>>>> who was Chief Engineer at WLS, a 50kW clear channel station
> >>>>> licensed to Chicago with a transmitter site SW of the city center,
> >>>>> found that his station could not be heard through the noise in
> >>>>> Ford vehicles in the northern parts of the city. Noise conditions
> are FAR worse today.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Growing up in WV in the '50s, our NBC radio affiliate was WLW, a
> >>>>> 50kW clear channel station on 700 kHz, 125 miles away.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 73, Jim K9YC
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> RFI mailing list
> >>>>> RFI@contesting.com <mailto:RFI@contesting.com>
> >>>>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> RFI mailing list
> >>>> RFI@contesting.com <mailto:RFI@contesting.com>
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> >>> _______________________________________________
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> > _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:44:49 +0000
> From: "Hare, Ed W1RFI" <w1rfi@arrl.org>
> To: KD7JYK DM09 <kd7jyk@earthlink.net>, "rfi@contesting.com"
> <rfi@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI
> Message-ID:
> <
> MWHPR16MB15976FDEE50158AAF1B6B7FF98530@MWHPR16MB1597.namprd16.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> If Tesla gets sued over any of this, absolutely every RFI problem for all
> time from any of their products, including up-and-coming EV
> wireless-power-transfer charging devices will be handled by their
> attorney.
>
> If their equipment meets the Part 15 emissions limits, it is the operator
> of the solar system that is responsible for interference, not them. That
> would be easy for them to demonstrate in court, so the lawsuit would
> probably go nowhere.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of KD7JYK DM09
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 7:24 PM
> To: rfi@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI
>
> "but for loss of enjoyment, and all those other fun things that lawyers
> sue for. Then let HIM end up suing Tesla to recover his money"
>
> True. In this state we have a statute covering, "Anything which is
> injurious to health, or indecent and offensive to the senses, or an
> obstruction to the free use of property, so as to interfere with the
> comfortable enjoyment of life or property; is a nuisance, and the subject
> of an action. The action may be brought by any person whose property is
> injuriously affected, or whose personal enjoyment is lessened by the
> nuisance, and by the judgment the nuisance may be enjoined or abated, as
> well as damages recovered."
>
> That allows a civil case against the offending party. Doesn't matter if
> someone else installed it, it was for the person that is causing offense,
> the end user is responsible to eliminate it. Additionally, part 15, beyond
> the above statute, states shut the system down upon notification of
> interference. So, inform, expect no noise by the time you get home. How,
> doesn't matter, so long as it ceases to exist. Not in an hour, not next
> week, as soon as the issue is announced. They can burn their panels down,
> or shoot the optimizers, doesn't matter, just the end result, to ensure
> compliance.
>
> In short, their existence may not be at the expense of others, they have
> no special privileges, or immunity, nor the right to affect others.
>
> Kurt
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2019 20:57:14 +0000
> From: "Hare, Ed W1RFI" <w1rfi@arrl.org>
> To: KD7JYK DM09 <kd7jyk@earthlink.net>, "rfi@contesting.com"
> <rfi@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI
> Message-ID:
> <
> MWHPR16MB159715415DD9D25873AD6D7498530@MWHPR16MB1597.namprd16.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Weigh what you just said against the reality that Solar Edge has resolved
> a number of complaints, typically by replacing all of the equipment and
> rewiring it. The lawyers would never have allowed that to happen.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces@contesting.com> On Behalf Of KD7JYK DM09
> Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 7:11 PM
> To: rfi@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Tesla's Response to Solar Panel RFI
>
> "The instant that the word "class action" is mentioned, every solar
> company on the Earth will stop assisting anyone that is currently being
> assisted in the US, and turn over all contact to a lawyer. All new
> assistance cases will be vectored through the lawyers. The next time
> someone complains they will be talking to a lawyer, not a technician."
>
> Yep, better than these corporate dolts trying to make sense of all the
> laws the violate while their victims continue to suffer. Let the lawyers
> tell them, "Yeah, you've committed so many thoroughly documented
> violations, you'd better fix them all now, and ensure it can never happen
> again, or remove your equipment, and close the doors, as based on all this,
> you're permanently boned...", followed by, "Oh, you KNEW it was this bad
> since day one? Yeah, you're really f'ed, no way out now, should have fixed
> this when it was $10 worth of parts!"
>
> It could save decades of hassle with those that have no ability to know,
> or find out. Save time, and effort, let them call their lawyers, those
> that don't know, rather than get free advice, from those that do...
>
> Kurt
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of RFI Digest, Vol 203, Issue 42
> ************************************
>
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