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Re: [RFI] Quidance on finding noise?

To: Don Kirk <wd8dsb@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Quidance on finding noise?
From: Kenny Silverman <kenny.k2kw@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2020 09:56:33 -0500
List-post: <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
A few people asked for a recording of the noise, which is posted here: 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Hht3peCne9Y

Regards , Kenny K2KW 

> On Jan 8, 2020, at 7:46 AM, Don Kirk <wd8dsb@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Ken,
> 
> One last comment or clarification.  I do agree that looking at the audio 
> signature ahead of time is useful to help decide if the noise looks like 
> power line type noise as that provides a clue about my 136 MHz AM tracking 
> equipment being useful or not.
> 
> Therefore I would indeed like to see the .wav file you mentioned when you 
> obtain it.  Make sure you record in AM mode using wide filter.
> 
> 73,
> Don (wd8dsb)
> 
>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 7:31 AM Don Kirk <wd8dsb@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Ken,
>> 
>> I helped W9TC locate a street light that was causing interference on HF that 
>> sounded just like power line noise.  Noise only during hours of darkness, 
>> and it was on continuous.  The bad light pole had a bulb that appeared to be 
>> burned out (it never illuminated).  The audio signature was similar to what 
>> you see from power line noise (120 Hz), and I was able to use 136 MHz AM to 
>> confirm the light pole was the source.  Don't know what the problem was with 
>> the light pole, but the property owner had the light repaired, and problem 
>> went away.  The light pole was located 560 feet from W9TC antennas.
>> 
>> I really don't think you should be thinking about anything, other than using 
>> good direction finding techniques to locate the source.  You need to use 
>> direction finding techniques to identify the property where the noise is 
>> originating, and then identify the culprit device, not the other way around 
>> (just my stead fast opinion).
>> 
>> Just FYI,
>> Don (wd8dsb)
>> 
>>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 6:52 AM Kenny Silverman <kenny.k2kw@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Thanks for the replies so far.  Just to reiterate, the noise is only from 
>>> sunset to sunrise and it’s constant. So it’s likely lighting related, but 
>>> it doesn’t cycle.  Have there been examples of constant noise from street 
>>> light or should we be thinking more about store signage?
>>> 
>>> Regards , Kenny K2KW 
>>> 
>>> > On Jan 8, 2020, at 3:47 AM, Don Kirk <wd8dsb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > Kenny,
>>> > 
>>> > I should also mention that I did have to track down noise from faulty 
>>> > light pole (problem only between sunset and sunrise), and same setup I 
>>> > use for power line noise worked great to find the suspect light pole.  
>>> > 136 MHz AM in close again was necessary to pinpoint the pole that was in 
>>> > a commercial parking lot. (Distribution/trucking company parking lot).
>>> > 
>>> > Don (wd8dsb)
>>> > 
>>> >> On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 3:38 AM Don Kirk <wd8dsb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> Hi Kenny,
>>> >> 
>>> >> I normally use portable HF radio with portable tuned loop and preamp on 
>>> >> 160 or 80 meters to triangulate on power line noise and then back the RF 
>>> >> gain down as I get close and sometimes use my car radio on 1710 KHz to 
>>> >> locate potential areas.  I also have 3 pennant RX antennas at home that 
>>> >> each point about 120 degrees from each other that let me know the exact 
>>> >> direction from my QTH the problem is coming from which really helps get 
>>> >> me started if I’m working on issues at my QTH versus another hams QTH.
>>> >> 
>>> >> Typically using portable AM receiver (portable police scanner) on 136 
>>> >> MHz and 4 element hand held beam with elements lengthened for 136 MHz I 
>>> >> typically hear power line noise at least 0.2 miles from the arcing power 
>>> >> line pole and sometimes greater distance.  When I’m in close (when I can 
>>> >> see the suspect pole) I normally have to throw in 20 to 30 db of 
>>> >> attenuation to pin point the pole.
>>> >> 
>>> >> The arcing power lines I have located have typically been 1.25 miles 
>>> >> away or less.
>>> >> 
>>> >> To pinpoint the pole I have to use 136 MHz AM with lots of attenuation 
>>> >> (not HF).
>>> >> 
>>> >> 73.
>>> >> Don wd8dsb
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> >>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2020 at 11:55 PM Kenny Silverman <kenny.k2kw@gmail.com> 
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>> Hi and thanks in advance!
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> We’ve been trying to track down some noise at a friends house but no 
>>> >>> luck so far and I was hoping for some tips on finding it.  The buzz 
>>> >>> comes on at sundown and turns off at sunrise. It’s bad on 160 but it 
>>> >>> can be heard Lightly on 80 and 40.  The noise is constant and does not 
>>> >>> cycle (at least for the 90 minutes I was listening to it tonight).  The 
>>> >>> worst direction is on the East beverage on 160. On 80m it seemed like 
>>> >>> the worst was to the NW...  it could be 2 sources but the noise appears 
>>> >>> to come on at the same time in all directions,  not a staggered turn 
>>> >>> on/off.   Could be a single source but poor F/B on the beverages. The 
>>> >>> Listening to the ARRL RFI files it sounds like power line noise or 
>>> >>> street lamps ( but without the cycling).  Over the 90 minutes tonight 
>>> >>> there were almost no variations (except for an occasional change in 
>>> >>> pitch). 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> We've DF’d on a portable AM radio, 2m and ultrasonic device. AM 
>>> >>> identified some noisy poles but we’re not convinced these are the main 
>>> >>> offenders.   Not much luck with VHF or ultrasonic.  Our next plan is to 
>>> >>> use a KX3 on 160m and a decent RX loop to direction find and 
>>> >>> triangulate. 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>>   I suspect we’re not looking out far enough...  suggestions on how far 
>>> >>> away we should be looking?  And how close do we need to be to hear it 
>>> >>> on  VHF?
>>> >>> 
>>> >>>  Besides power lines and street lamps, other thoughts on possible 
>>> >>> offenders? Most of the area is residential with street lamps on most 
>>> >>> streets. 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Regards , Kenny K2KW 
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