We are having a similar problem, but for real, with Samsung stoves that
apparently turn on burners or the self-clean feature of the oven, seemingly in
response to RFI. They are in full denial and non-response mode. Unfortunately,
there are no immunity regulations in the US, so we can't turn to the FCC for
help because there are no rules to enforce.
I am getting ready for Plan B, which is to draft a pretty damning article and
send it to their media PR department. That has been known to get some real
action.
Not all problems are solved solely with technology. 🙂
________________________________
From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org@contesting.com> on behalf of Dave (NK7Z)
<dave@nk7z.net>
Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2022 1:57 PM
To: rfi@contesting.com <rfi@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Another Solar Panel RFI System
Tell me about it! I had a neighbor start on me about their stove clock
getting reset when I transmitted on 17 Meters...
They complained to the vendor, and the vendor told them it was the
Amateur Radio Operators fault...
That took several months to sort out... Still not fully sorted out, but
I no longer care. The neighbor told me they were trying to game the
stove manufacturer into getting a better model via the RFI angle... I
added that to my RFI log, and ceased worrying about it at that point...
I now work DX on 17... :)
73, and thanks,
Dave (NK7Z)
https://www.nk7z.net
ARRL Volunteer Examiner
ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
On 12/25/22 10:22, David Eckhardt wrote:
> We once owned an Allen 2-manual "digital" church organ which we lost in
> a major forest fire in 2012. Yes, I played the pipe organ. I remember
> when Part 15 was tightened and Allen went through quite an intense
> effort to repackage and decouple everything so it would comply with the
> tighter standards.
>
> I could operate legal power to an inverted Vee which had the feedpoint
> directly over the house at roughly 15 feet above the roof. It was fed
> with parallel conductor transmission line. I
> never.....never......interfered with that organ on any band and at any
> output power to the feedline. It didn't matter whether it was on or
> off, no interference.
>
> Not all appliances are so responsible.
>
> Dave - WØLEV
>
> On Sun, Dec 25, 2022 at 5:37 PM Hare, Ed, W1RFI <w1rfi@arrl.org
> <mailto:w1rfi@arrl.org>> wrote:
>
> About 25 years ago, ARRL was contacted by an engineer who worked
> with the FCC. He had been assigned to rewrite the FCC's RFI
> material. We worked together over a number of months and came up
> with a book on consumer interference that truly spoke to the issues.
> It lived on the FCC web page for quite a while.
>
> Unfortunately, the FCC, in its wisdom, decided that the RFI material
> needed to be simplified. It removed much of what we had included
> earlier. Fortunately, ARRL kept a copy and because it was authored
> by the US government, it is public domain and may be circulated and
> used freely. So we kept that technically accurate material on the
> ARRL web page. The information on interference to consumer
> equipment is quite to the point and will go a long way towards
> helping a neighbor to understand. My personal favorite from the
> book is the following:
>
> "Stereos, electronic organs, and intercom devices, among others, can
> react to nearby radio transmitters. When this happens, the device
> improperly functions as a radio receiver."
>
> The text in its entirely is available at:
>
>
> http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/FCC%20RFI%20Information/tvibook.pdf
> <http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/FCC%20RFI%20Information/tvibook.pdf>
>
> ARRL also worked with the Consumer Electronics Association and
> prepared a joint publication to help consumers understand
> interference causes and cures.
>
> This is no longer printed as a pamphlet, but the text is still
> mostly current. (I can see some of the sources at the end need to be
> updated.)
>
> The pamphlet text is available at:
>
>
> https://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/Neighbor_Info/Neighbor_Info.pdf
> <https://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/Neighbor_Info/Neighbor_Info.pdf>
>
> In the event a neighbor complains to the FCC, if they cite amateur
> radio, the case will end up going to Laura Smith. She is well
> educated on the types of interference that can and cannot be caused
> by rules violations at an amateur station, so there is little risk
> that the complaint alone will cause the amateur any problems. It is
> most likely that she will send the case to ARRL, who will work with
> the amateur and his/her neighbor under our cooperative agreements
> with FCC staff.
>
> Ed Hare, W1RFI
> ARRL Lab
>
>
> What To Do if You Have an Electronic Interference Problem - American
> Radio Relay
>
> League<https://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/Neighbor_Info/Neighbor_Info.pdf
> <https://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/Neighbor_Info/Neighbor_Info.pdf>>
> Page 5 of 7 Try the Easy Things First Sometimes, the easiest
> solutions are the best. Many cases of interference can be resolved
> without the need for technical investigations or knowledge.
> www.arrl.org<http://www.arrl.org> <http://www.arrl.org>
>
> ________________________________
> From: RFI <rfi-bounces+w1rfi=arrl.org@contesting.com
> <mailto:arrl.org@contesting.com>> on behalf of Dave (NK7Z)
> <dave@nk7z.net <mailto:dave@nk7z.net>>
> Sent: Sunday, December 25, 2022 10:13 AM
> To: rfi@contesting.com <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
> <rfi@contesting.com <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>>
> Subject: Re: [RFI] Another Solar Panel RFI System
>
> Hi Dale,
>
> For the most part that is not going to work well... No matter how much
> you talk to your next door neighbor if you interfere with their <insert
> device name here>, it is almost always your fault in their minds...
> The logic goes like this:
>
> "I have a <insert device name here>, it works 99% of the time, but when
> you transmit it does not work..."
>
> How do you think most people are going to react to that situation... So
> as Amateurs, we start out handicapped, because the consumer is not
> educated in how RFI responsibility is parsed out. The consumer is sure
> it is you, not them...
>
> Now lets reverse the victim status...
>
> The consumer installs a multi thousand dollar <insert device name here>:
>
> "I paid thousands to to install this, and had professionals install
> it... I bought it from a manufacturer we all know and love. It can't
> be my equipment..."
>
> Again-- education of the consumer is the driver here. If the consumer
> is happy, and the system is in place, the Amateur is already behind the
> 8-Ball, and again, the Amateur is handicapped as a result of lack of
> education on the consumers part, with regards to parsing RFI
> responsibility.
>
> This places an installer, or manufacturer, in the position of telling
> the consumer that their newly installed multi thousand dollar widget,
> may interfere with the amateur next door, and they, (the consumer), will
> have to pay more to fix the issue...
>
> Again, the consumer is going to whine about this state of affairs, and
> neither the the manufacture, or the vendor, are going to tell the
> consumer this, as they may lose the sale... Again, education issues for
> the consumer, and maybe penalty's for the vendor if they don't tell the
> consumer might help...
>
> Until the consumer, not the Amateur, is directly affected by RFI, the
> RFI nightmare we all live in, (if we are a city), will continue.
>
> Part of the RFI "fix" MUST include education beyond the Part 15, or 18,
> stickers on equipment to consumers... The consumer views these stickers
> like the tags on mattresses that say "DO NOT REMOVE UNDER PENALTY OF
> LAW", they are ignored, and removed, for the most part.
>
> I really don't see how this will get solved in my lifetime... At 70, I
> have perhaps 15 to 20, (if I am lucky), years left...
>
> It will take that long just to cycle out most of the old gear, if a
> mandate were to be put in place today.
>
> I applaud the efforts of the ARRL, the only way to work this issue is to
> educate everyone involved, and get standards in place...
>
> Maybe the next generation of hams will see less RFI...
>
> With regards to contracts... You are dead correct Dale!
>
> I was lucky, I got my HVAC installer to put in his contract that if RFI
> were to occur at a level I was not happy with, they would fix the issue,
> or remove and replace the HVAC system. I doubt I could get that
> concession again today... No RFI, occurred however, as we discussed
> this with the vendor prior to install, (no PWM motors were used), and
> the vendor contacted the manufacturer BEFORE starting on the project.
>
> What next door neighbor is going to tell a vendor, you had better be
> ready to charge me more, if the ham next door complains...
>
> Consumers MUST be educated about RFI responsibilities, as part of an
> overall fix, if RFI is to be reduced...
>
> 73, and thanks,
> Dave (NK7Z)
> https://www.nk7z.net <https://www.nk7z.net>
> ARRL Volunteer Examiner
> ARRL Technical Specialist, RFI
> ARRL Asst. Director, NW Division, Technical Resources
>
> On 12/25/22 01:04, Dale wrote:
> > so it would seem that we hams try to work with our neighbors to
> minimize the problems from their systems
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>
>
>
> --
> *Dave - WØLEV*
>
>
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