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Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL

To: Chuck <charlesh3@msn.com>, "topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL
From: James Rodenkirch <rodenkirch_llc@msn.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 08:31:32 -0700
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
There is a wullenweber antenna down in the San Diego area - south end of the 
Coronado peninsula....not operational but the site is used by the Navy Seals.

Jim R. K9JWV

> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 23:27:42 -0800
> From: charlesh3@msn.com
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL
> 
> Much much closer to home for us Pacific NW'ers:
> 
> https://maps.google.com/maps?q=40+43+24+n,+141+19+44+e&hl=en&ll=40.72308,141.328892&spn=0.003313,0.006968&sll=40.723876,141.329155&sspn=0.026507,0.055747&t=k&z=18
> 
> It looks to be operational and is still gated and guarded and has cars 
> parked at the building.
> 
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> On 2/4/2013 10:53 AM, donovanf@starpower.net wrote:
> > Hi Lee,
> >
> > You can save yourself lots of engineering effort if you simply make 
> > yourself a copy of this one:
> >
> > https://maps.google.com/maps?q=40+43+24+n,+141+19+44+e&hl=en&ll=40.72308,141.328892&spn=0.003313,0.006968&sll=40.723876,141.329155&sspn=0.026507,0.055747&t=k&z=18
> >
> > My former employer (then Sylvania, now General Dynamics Advanced 
> > Information Systems) installed it in 1966 at Misawa Air Base, Japan.  I 
> > believe its still exists, but its probably no longer in use due to 
> > technical obsolesence, high maintenance costs and unavailability of spare 
> > parts.  An identical array installed at Elmendorf Air Base, Alaska is also 
> > still in existence as far as I know.  Maybe you can purchase one of them!
> >
> > Many copies of the original 40 element German "Wullenwever" array were 
> > built all over USSR shortly after World War II, some may still exist.  
> > Among other things, they tracked the 10 and 20 MHz Sputnik beacons that 
> > some of us recall.
> >
> > 73
> > Frank
> > W3LPL
> >
> > ---- Original message ----
> >> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2013 10:13:55 -0800
> >> From: "Lee K7TJR" <k7tjr@msn.com>
> >> Subject: New 160M high performance receiving antenna at W3LPL
> >> To: "Robert McGwier" <rwmcgwier@gmail.com>, "Frank Donovan" 
> >> <donovanf@starpower.net>
> >> Cc: "Topband" <topband@contesting.com>
> >>
> >>    Hello Bob and all, Yes I agree on the issue of needing the
> >>    stable impedance
> >>     from the elements to drive the passive systems. I still have
> >>    some questions
> >>     in my mind about the radials and here is why. I have made
> >>    many field tests
> >>     where I measured the actual phase and amplitude differences
> >>    between two
> >>     receiving elements where one is held constant and parameters
> >>    around the
> >>     other were changed such as ground rods, radials, and such.
> >>    Both were
> >>     receiving signal from an equidistant transmitted source.
> >>     What I can tell you
> >>     for sure about this is that with a Hi-Z system the phase and
> >>    amplitude shifts
> >>     become quite unstable when radials are used. I do not know
> >>    this to be a
> >>     fact with loaded elements but I have seen evidence of  some
> >>    received
> >>     signal shift due to the presence of the radials to the
> >>    element. This test really
> >>     opened my eyes about received signals and what objects might
> >>    affect
> >>     them. I have plans to buy the NEC4 engine and do some more
> >>    field tests
> >>     using another technology that should give me more answers. It
> >>    is these
> >>     minute details that prevent us from making these RX antennas
> >>    even smaller.
> >>      There is no doubt that the state of the art is advancing in
> >>    receiving antenas
> >>     with all the work that is and has gone on. I am confident
> >>    that what we are
> >>     presently doing is not perfect and I expect the state of the
> >>    art still has a ways
> >>     to go. There have been many man years of work by many people.
> >>    I hesitate
> >>     to name calls but a few notables are K6SE, W7IUV, W8JI, K9AY,
> >>    W3LPL,
> >>     W5ZN, W1FV, NX4D, N4IS, AA7J, K1LT and many many others that
> >>    I
> >>     apologize for not having the space here or personal memory at
> >>    the moment
> >>     to mention. There are more man years of work to do.
> >>        I still covet the 96 element Wullenwever antenna invented
> >>    around 1940!
> >>    Lee  K7TJR
> >>
> >>    >The issue is getting sufficient ground radials so that
> >>    changing soil conditions: dry season, wet season, etc have
> >>    minimal impact on the impedance which is the easiest
> >>    measurement of the changing conditions.  Joel and I did
> >>    measurements several times and when he was near drought he
> >>    found he had to add radials to stabilize the performance.
> >>     Once done, his system has been stable since.
> >>    Great news on both of you successfully deploying.
> >>    Bob
> >>    >N4HY
> >>
> >>
> > _________________
> > Topband Reflector
> >
> >
> 
> _________________
> Topband Reflector
                                          
_________________
Topband Reflector

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