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Re: Topband: Compact magnetic loop

To: "Bill Cromwell" <wrcromwell@gmail.com>, <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Compact magnetic loop
From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Reply-to: Tom W8JI <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 2015 18:32:19 -0500
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Effective aperture is not size related.
Effective aperture is exclusively tied to wavelength and gain.

The only time effective aperture means anything for receiving is when external noise no longer significantly influences noise floor. Other than that, effective aperture is meaningless for S/N or hearing DX.

The real issue with a small loop is it only has two very sharp nulls through the axis. It all other directions, even straight up and below, it has response. This means the only points where it significantly discriminates against external noise are two points through the axis.

Making it worse, many or most loops have terrible feedpoint designs. I measured a very popular expensive loop, and the pattern had considerable skewing because of feedline common mode response. While I had the loop thousands of feet from noise sources, the pattern told me the feedline was a major part of the "antenna".

That same antenna, near my house, was nearly dominated by conducted noise along the feedline. I determined the common mode "noise" sensitivity was only down 5-10 dB from the loop pickup when a 50 foot feedline was used.

It could only be three things:

1.) The feedpoint or loop design was poor, resulting in local conducted noise dominating the background

2.) An inherent lack of directivity that comes with the wide peak response and narrow axis nulls of the loop

3.) The loop efficiency is too low for the noise floor of the preamps, and internal noise is limiting weak signal response (even a 3 foot loop has enough theoretical gain for use in a reasonably quiet location)

All of those are reasonably easy  to test.

73 Tom




----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Cromwell" <wrcromwell@gmail.com>
To: <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2015 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: Topband: Compact magnetic loop


Hi,

That small mag-loop has a small aperture and so all of the signals delivered to your radio will be lower levels than from a bigger antenna (in terms of wavelength. A preamp should improve the signal strength but not improve the SNR over what you get with the loop and no preamp. The mag-loop reduces the noise with it's high Q and decreased bandwidth and those nulls contribute to reduced noise, too. I have excellent luck with mine but there just isn't any silver bullet. The mag loop I use on 160 meters is four and a half feet in diameter. The receiver I use on 160 is easily overloaded without some attenuation so the reduced signal levels from the mag-loop are *ideal*.

73,

Bill  KU8H

On 01/17/2015 05:06 PM, Ignacy Misztal wrote:
I homebrewed a magnetic loop for diversity reception with Hi-Z 3 el. in
K3.  For perhaps up to 1000 miles the loop provides excellent separation
between signals from Hi-Z. But it hears distant stations poorly, much worse than TX inv L. Based on earlier reports I expected the loop to be very good
for DX.

The loop is made from coax, is tuned and has a transformer.  About 50 KHz
2:1 BW. A low-noise preamp does not improve S/N.

Any experiences with the loop here?

Ignacy, NO9E
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