Hi Don
Yes I agree, they usually do. In contests some do and some don't - you
know that way better than me. I think that the distinction is that
everybody is on the same mode. So that when a potential CQer says 'QRL?'
there are a few ms available to say yes. With mixed modes that is not
possible.
73 Roger
VE3ZI
From: Don Beattie <don@g3bj.com>
To: 'Roger Parsons' <ve3zi@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2016, 11:05
Subject: RE: Topband: Am I the only one in step?
But Roger, unless I have missed something, in regards to your PS, do not
most of the rarer DXpeditions on 160 work split?
I agree the volume of callers should keep the calling channel clear, but
it's also necessary to hear the DX! So wouldn't some guard channel be very
helpful in those situations?
73
Don, G3BJ / G5W
-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Roger
Parsons via Topband
Sent: 01 March 2016 15:55
To: Tom Haavisto <kamham69@gmail.com>
Cc: TopBand List <topband@contesting.com>; Contest
<cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Am I the only one in step?
Tom
Perhaps you are correct in suggesting that only one SSB contest in the
whole year impacts significantly on 160m CW activity. Therefore, for all
contests and QSO parties other than CQ 160 SSB, the competitors will not
be affected at all if the organisers prohibit SSB operation below 1820
kHz. Thank you for clarifying the situation, and I look forward to your
support in getting that entered into the rules of each of these events.
So now the issue is that I am asking that 7 kHz (or perhaps something
less) out of 40 kHz 'prime' international frequencies be reserved for CW
operation during one contest. Doesn't strike me as anything that should be
terribly difficult for you and other contesters to accept in the interests
of co-existence and co-operation on the Gentleman's Band.
73 RogerVE3ZI
PS Top Band Expeditions: The majority of expeditions operate only CW on
160m and many have coincided with major CW contests. They only need to
make a couple of contacts before they have a stream of callers who will
keep any CQ machines at bay. Expeditions made specifically for some
particular contest, whether CW or SSB, have little problem on either mode.
From: Tom Haavisto <kamham69@gmail.com>
To: Roger Parsons <ve3zi@yahoo.com>
Cc: TopBand List <topband@contesting.com>; Contest
<cq-contest@contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, 29 February 2016, 13:54
Subject: Re: Topband: Am I the only one in step?
Hi Roger
Thanks for making me take a second look. For some reason, I thought ARRL
had a 160 phone contest - they do not. My mistake.As it turns out - there
is only ONE SSB contest - the CQ 160 SSB that can fill 160 meters with SSB
signals. ONE weekend per year in which CW activity will be seriously
impacted by a phone contest on 160.
There are the CQ 160 and ARRL 160 CW contests. Not sure how you protect a
DXpedition from contest activity if they were operating CW during a CW
contest. Would the DXpedition operate phone that weekend? Not sure how
well that would work, as they would be pushed pretty high up the band...
ALL the other contests listed have 160 meters as one band of six to
conduct contest QSO's. Folks will make a 'quick trip' to 160, look for a
few QSO's, then return to higher bands. Even if folks operate phone in the
contests you have listed, I really cannot see someone camping out below
1840 for an extended period of time looking for Q's. Good manners and
common sense seem to play a huge part in this. Am I missing something?
How do we move a world-wide contest, based a DXpedition taking to the air
at the last minute, and saying "Gee - wonder if we should operate on 160?"
I realize this may seem like an odd question, but this seems what you
would like to see happen. The weekend is advertised - years in advance -
for any DXpedition to find. Other/most DXpeditions seem to take contest
activity in account as part of their planning. Phone operation already
takes place higher in the band during every contest, other than the one
that just happened. Topband is safe from SSB signals below 1840 for
another 51 weeks.
Just trying to understand the issue...
Tom - VE3CX
On Mon, Feb 29, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Roger Parsons <ve3zi@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thank you for your comments Tom.
The NA band plan has phone at above 1840kHz. My proposal is for phone
above 1817kHz (and perhaps below 1810kHz) which seems to me to accept that
this is not normal band loading.
Please see my previous post regarding antenna bandwidth.
I don't know where you get your 'two weekends a year'. I did a quick skim
and found the following significant phone contests which include 160m:
CQ160, ARRL DX, Russian DX, WPX, ARRL FD, IARU, CQWW.
Obviously the effects will vary between contests and between different
areas of the world. There are also many QSO parties and a great number of
smaller contests.
CW contests do not preclude phone operation on top band - they just move
it further up the band. SSB contests at present leave no space whatsoever
for any other modes.
Your wonderings leave me bemused. Your question can just as easily be
reversed: "Why would somebody plan a 160m phone contest when there is a
DXpedition planned?" and make just as much sense. I believe that one of
the current DXpeditions is actually a spare time operation of people who
are working in the country for a short period. Difficult to change that
timing. And why on earth should they be prevented from operating on 160m
if that is their pleasure, any more than you should be prevented from
operating in a 160m phone contest when that is your pleasure.
But the most important fact is that it is entirely possible for CW and
phone to coexist during a 160m phone contest. Leave a very small bandwidth
(enough for 3 SSB stations) where phone contest operators are not
permitted. Write it into the contest rules so that regulations and
bandplans become irrelevant.
Again I ask. Why not?
73 Roger
VE3ZI
________________________________
From: Tom Haavisto <kamham69@gmail.com>
To: Roger Parsons <ve3zi@yahoo.com>
Cc: TopBand List <topband@contesting.com>; Contest
<cq-contest@contesting.com>
Sent: Sunday, 28 February 2016, 19:19
Subject: Re: Topband: Am I the only one in step?
I think there is a few things that need to also be taken into account.
A bandplan is designed for *normal* band loading. Clearly, when there is a
contest on, we are NOT dealing with normal band loading.
As has been noted, antenna bandwidth is part of the issue.
Phone contests will take up two weekends out of the year on Topband.
What happens when there is a CW contest? We move up the band to accomodate
the extra activity... With a phone contest, with folks using <1Khz
spacing, every little of extra space helps. So yes - folks DO move down
into the CW part of the band.
But - I cannot help but wonder - why would someone plan a DXpedition (much
planning involved), and NOT take a 160 phone contest into consideration? I
have seen some DXpeditions go to the WARC bands if there is a major
contest on when they are on. Or - they operate the other mode (operate CW
when there is a phone contest on, and vice versa). Could a DXpedition not
stay off 160 for the weekend they are there (assuming they are not there
FOR the contest), and focus on 80 meters instead? Not EVERY serious DXer
is on 160, and I am sure more than a few of them would appreciate the
extra attention (a weekends worth) to their favorite band/mode/whatever as
the DXpedition does not operate on Topband.
Just "seems odd" to me.
Tom - VE3CX
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On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 10:22 AM, Roger Parsons via Topband
<topband@contesting.com> wrote:
I enjoy contests but...
This weekend has seen the CQ 160m SSB Contest. It has also seen CW
activity or attempted activity from a number of extremely rare DX
entities.
Why is it reasonable or even acceptable for the band to be full of SSB
contesters from 1800kHz to about 1960kHz? The vast majority of contacts
made in the contest are same continent, and in the case of NA could and
should all comply with the band plan. Why is the CW part of the band full
of SSB whereas the top (phone) end of the band is almost empty?
I have previously suggested to the contest administrators at both CQ and
ARRL that they set in the contest rules a lower operational limit of
1820kHz dial frequency. That would give contesters 23kHz of the 'prime'
international frequencies between 1810kHz and 1840kHz, and a total 183kHz
for many countries. The CW DX operators would have 7kHz internationally.
Neither CQ nor ARRL have treated this suggestion seriously, nor come up
with any alternative.
Why not?
73 Roger
VE3ZI
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