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Topband: 160 Power

To: "topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: 160 Power
From: rick darwicki via Topband <topband@contesting.com>
Reply-to: rick darwicki <n6pe@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 16:25:54 +0000 (UTC)
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
In contests I call a lot of guys barefoot first and kick on the amp as needed. 
Problem is usually a guy running full power can be heard out here but has an 
S-8 noise level and can't hear 100W..Yes you can work a lot of DX with low 
power, but as an ex-QRP club member I learned life if too short, 9 to go for 
DXCC on 160 and sweating it. 
5U and TU can't hear me thru the pile up but I'll bet they can copy if there 
was nobody else on.
Tried JT65 and it seems CW work also work when it works.Bottom line is you 
typically need power on the low bands to overcome the other guys noise. Rick 
N6PE======================================================================
There are more planes in the ocean than submarines in the sky




      From: "topband-request@contesting.com" <topband-request@contesting.com>
 To: topband@contesting.com 
 Sent: Monday, March 20, 2017 9:11 AM
 Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 171, Issue 17
   
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Today's Topics:

  1. Digital modes on TB and power required (Jim Jim)
  2. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (wb6rse1@mac.com)
  3. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (HAROLD SMITH JR)
  4. Re: Digital modes on TB and power required (Mike Waters)
  5. Re: JT65 Power and bandwidth (Rob Atkinson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 21:14:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Jim <wa3mej@comcast.net>
To: List-Topband <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required
Message-ID: <1176951029.186017.1489972452731@connect.xfinity.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Guys,

First of all in many cases the reason we need really high power on any mode is 
because other hams on the band are using it and they cover us up... so it is 
mine is bigger than yours.  Now to be fair that is not always the case I know 
but it happens far too much.  Since we are in the years of the bottom of the 
solar cycle we actually may need more power.  Also you can not compare doing 
meteor scatter or EME work with HF work.  There you absolutely need power 
unless you have stacked 18 element beams or something.  But I have seen very 
very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job done EVEN on 160M.  and NO I 
don't run my RX with a wide open front end I have an IC 7300 and I trim my RX 
and TX filters to a reasonable width based on the mode I am running.  Common 
sense (and good engineering principals) teach you if you cut the RX bandwidth 
the signal goes up in strength. You have only to try that with CW to learn 
that.    and for those of you that don't understand the princip
 al of RX front end overload try having a neighbor 4 miles away as the crow 
files who is trying to call the same DX you are wanting to work he can be half 
a kHz away and still give you problems even with a good RX. Now you guys with 
the really big antennas can mitigate some of this but us little pistols have 
only once choice ... wait until you neighbor is done.  And to be neighborly 
both my neighbor and I do just that.  Something to also consider when you run 
any digital mode even RTTY and you do it through a sound card you should not be 
drawing ANY.. not even a little ALC and if you do you not only will make it 
hard for others to copy you but you could easily cause all kinds of splatter on 
the band, you have only to listen to some to the signal on 40 and 20 meters to 
see this.

I am not saying any of this to flame or inflame anyone it is simply the way it 
is. High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands.


Doubt me?  Set your transceiver up on WSPR and set it to 20w  and find out.  
When TB was open I was heard all over the world with that power .. and yes even 
VK.  If all of this is not convincing then follow the FCC rules .. use only the 
power necessary to do that job


Oh by the way many of these digital modes are high duty cycle and could do 
damage to your transceiver. 


Jim



On the higher bands, low power generally gets the job done. But digital
folks on 160 need to rethink a few things. Ideally, we should ALL just bump
our output up to 100 watts. But that's just not gonna happen.  ?

I don't have the time right now to add more, but I hope this thread nets
some useful suggestions to minimize QRN in the 160m digital portion.

73, Mike
www.w0btu.com http://www.w0btu.com/

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 18:42:18 -0700
From: wb6rse1@mac.com
To: Top Band List List <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required
Message-ID: <C9E69442-3141-4A38-A05C-2BD29E827C3C@mac.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset=us-ascii

Try that on 160 from the left coast to EU and AF and you might get very a 
different perspective.

73 - Steve WB6RSE



On Mar 19, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Jim Jim <wa3mej@comcast.net> wrote:

But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job done 
EVEN on 160M. 

High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands.

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 02:31:32 +0000 (UTC)
From: HAROLD SMITH JR <w0rihps@sbcglobal.net>
To: "wb6rse1@mac.com" <wb6rse1@mac.com>,     Top Band List List
    <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required
Message-ID: <2090077556.3483773.1489977092492@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Try that from the mid-west and you will have to wait, wait and wait and then 
wait some more.Been there, done 
that......................................................................................................................................................


Try that on 160 from the left coast to EU and AF and you might get very a 
different perspective.

73 - Steve WB6RSE



On Mar 19, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Jim Jim <wa3mej@comcast.net> wrote:

But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job done 
EVEN on 160M. 

High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands.
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 22:13:50 -0500
From: Mike Waters <mikewate@gmail.com>
To: topband <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Digital modes on TB and power required
Message-ID:
    <CA+FxYXhTu4z1Njc9DnkcJUSfwfbA=tJoYjMSzret1XTx5OSeUA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 8:42 PM, <wb6rse1@mac.com> wrote:

> Try that on 160 from the left coast to EU and AF and you might get very a
> different perspective.
>
> 73 - Steve WB6RSE
>

On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 9:31 PM, HAROLD SMITH JR <w0rihps@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:

> Try that from the mid-west and you will have to wait, wait and wait and
> then wait some more. Been there, done that................................
>

Well said, Steve and Harold! That's usually true even if you have a super
station.

Maybe Jim has a better antenna system? Or a better location? We're all
ears, maybe we'll learn something new.

73. Mike
www.w0btu.com



> On Mar 19, 2017, at 6:14 PM, Jim Jim <wa3mej@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> But I have seen very very few instances when 50 watts wont get the job
> done EVEN on 160M.
>
> High power is RARELY necessary on the lower bands.
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 08:57:12 -0500
From: Rob Atkinson <ranchorobbo@gmail.com>
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: JT65 Power and bandwidth
Message-ID:
    <CALWD7Z5=OAo7vCZsMuEwgJ7J0nPxQ8tZidzUzMy1rSfhBS2zqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

>FCC regs say you should use the minimum power necessary to establish
>communications.

Um, no.  Here's what it actually says:


?97.313  Transmitter power standards.

(a) An amateur station must use the minimum transmitter power
necessary to carry out the desired communications.


Your "desired communications" are not my "desired communications."  I
desire solid armchair copy.  On 160 that usually means QRO.

73

Rob
K5UJ


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