Thought for sure you would tell us a lightning arrestor on a power
pole a mile away had worn out and was in the permanent arcing
position.
A few years back a buddy and I tracked down my 59+20 noise to one of
two poles about 2000 ft west of my house. Met the local power company
boys at the pole I thought it was, but they checked it all and found
nothing. Then we moved to my Candidate #2, the next pole south. As
soon as the guy got out of his truck he said, "THIS is it!. I can hear
the lightning arrestor arcing over my head. Couple hours later all was
well on 160m again.
-----------------------------------------From:
topband-request@contesting.com
To: topband@contesting.com
Cc:
Sent: Saturday November 13 2021 12:00:48PM
Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 227, Issue 16
Send Topband mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Topband digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Beverage polarization (JHDMD)
2. Re: Beverage polarization (Jose_Carlos)
3. Beverage polarization (Ron Spencer)
4. Beverage Combo (Chortek, Robert L.)
5. Re: Beverage Combo (donovanf@erols.com)
6. Horrendous Local Noise (Roger Kennedy)
7. Re: Horrendous Local Noise (Jeff Kincaid)
8. Re: Horrendous Local Noise (Peter Voelpel)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 12:01:43 -0500
From: JHDMD
To: Jose_Carlos
Cc: Wes , topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage polarization
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
This subject is well covered in theory by the late John Krause (SK es
W8JK) in his famous book
?Electromagnetics?. He is a late Professor of Electrical Engineering
at the Ohio State University.
My father gave me a copy of this book when I was a student at Georgia
Tech in the 1960?s.
73,
John, W4NU
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 12, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Jose_Carlos wrote:
>
> ?Ron
>
> The short answer is simple. Beverage antenna is really a
transmission line with all proprieties of a transmission line, in one
side is terminated by a load and on the other side by a transformer.
The difference in speed of the signal, and the arriving wave angle of
incidence, on the in the open air wire, and in the second wire, that
is actually the ground, generates a current that travels on the
direction of the arriving wave.
> The wave near the ground interacts with matter (ground) and it is
reflected back, the vertical component has a positive phase and adds
to the incident vertical component and generate the current that
travel the transmission line (wire+ground). The Horizontal component
has a negative phase and cancel the horizontal component and the
result is no current is generated.
>
>
> 73?s
> JC
> N4IS
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>
> From: Wes
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 9:09 AM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage polarization
>
>
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/QST/This%20Month%20in%20QST/2021/11%20November%202021/Silver%20Donovan.pdf
/> >
>> On 11/12/2021 6:26 AM, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:
>> I recently read, from Tom, W8JI, that the beverage antenna is
vertically polarized. I'm hoping someone might explain this to me.
Intuitively seems it would be horizontal.
>>
>>
>> From here: http://w8ji.com/polarization_and_diversity.htm
/> >>
>>
>>
>> Under Best diversity receive antennas.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> N4XD
>> Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
/> >> _________________
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [1] -
Topband Reflector
>
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [2] -
Topband Reflector
>
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [3] -
Topband Reflector
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 12:14:04 -0500
From: Jose_Carlos
To: JHDMD
Cc: Wes , "topband@contesting.com"
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage polarization
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks Jon I have one copy too.
Electrical and Electronic Engineering series KRAUS ANTENNAS page 412.
14-11 Beverage or Wave Antenna.
73.s
JC
N4IS
Sent from Mail for Windows
From: JHDMD
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 12:03 PM
To: Jose_Carlos
Cc: Wes; topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage polarization
This subject is well covered in theory by the late John Krause (SK es
W8JK) in his famous book
?Electromagnetics?. He is a late Professor of Electrical Engineering
at the Ohio State University.
My father gave me a copy of this book when I was a student at Georgia
Tech in the 1960?s.
73,
John, W4NU
Sent from my iPhone
> On Nov 12, 2021, at 11:28 AM, Jose_Carlos wrote:
>
> ?Ron
>
> The short answer is simple. Beverage antenna is really a
transmission line with all proprieties of a transmission line, in one
side is terminated by a load and on the other side by a transformer.
The difference in speed of the signal, and the arriving wave angle of
incidence, on the in the open air wire, and in the second wire, that
is actually the ground, generates a current that travels on the
direction of the arriving wave.
> The wave near the ground interacts with matter (ground) and it is
reflected back, the vertical component has a positive phase and adds
to the incident vertical component and generate the current that
travel the transmission line (wire+ground). The Horizontal component
has a negative phase and cancel the horizontal component and the
result is no current is generated.
>
>
> 73?s
> JC
> N4IS
>
> Sent from Mail for Windows
>
> From: Wes
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 9:09 AM
> To: topband@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage polarization
>
>
http://www.arrl.org/files/file/QST/This%20Month%20in%20QST/2021/11%20November%202021/Silver%20Donovan.pdf
/> >
>> On 11/12/2021 6:26 AM, Ron Spencer via Topband wrote:
>> I recently read, from Tom, W8JI, that the beverage antenna is
vertically polarized. I'm hoping someone might explain this to me.
Intuitively seems it would be horizontal.
>>
>>
>> From here: http://w8ji.com/polarization_and_diversity.htm
/> >>
>>
>>
>> Under Best diversity receive antennas.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> N4XD
>> Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
/> >> _________________
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [4] -
Topband Reflector
>
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [5] -
Topband Reflector
>
> _________________
> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [6] -
Topband Reflector
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [7] - Topband
Reflector
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 12:17:01 -0500
From: Ron Spencer
To: "Topband@Contesting. Com"
Subject: Topband: Beverage polarization
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Thank all of you that responded. I had read the article in QST but
that was before I had my question. Went back and read (and re-read
again) the information on polarization. Think I got it. Again, thank
you all for the replies.?
Ron
N4XD
Sent using https://www.zoho.com/mail/
/>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 18:09:04 +0000
From: "Chortek, Robert L."
To: TopBand List
Subject: Topband: Beverage Combo
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I have 300 foot unterminated beverage mounted at 3 feet on the fence
behind my yard which extends behind two neighbors? properties. Works
GREAT!
Due to certain complications, I will need to turn antenna into a
combination standard beverage, and beverage on ground.
The antenna will remain at 3 feet for 110 feet behind our property,
then drop down 3 feet vertical, run another hundred feet horizontal on
the ground, then up 3 feet vertical for the and then the final 100
feet at 3 feet on a neighbor?s fence.
Does anybody have an opinion as to how much degradation I?m likely to
get from this new antenna?
Thanks and 73,
Bob/AA6VB
Robert L. Chortek
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 13:19:14 -0500 (EST)
From: donovanf@erols.com
To: TopBand List
Cc: "Robert L. Chortek"
Subject: Re: Topband: Beverage Combo
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi Bob,
The most serious issue with your idea is "on the ground"
Even though BOGs are thought of being "on the ground" their
performance is severely compromised if they're not elevated
at least a few inches, typically by laying it on top of grass.
Is it possible to keep "on the ground" portion at least slightly
elevated?
73
Frank
W3LPL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert L. Chortek"
To: "TopBand List"
Sent: Friday, November 12, 2021 6:09:04 PM
Subject: Topband: Beverage Combo
I have 300 foot unterminated beverage mounted at 3 feet on the fence
behind my yard which extends behind two neighbors? properties. Works
GREAT!
Due to certain complications, I will need to turn antenna into a
combination standard beverage, and beverage on ground.
The antenna will remain at 3 feet for 110 feet behind our property,
then drop down 3 feet vertical, run another hundred feet horizontal on
the ground, then up 3 feet vertical for the and then the final 100
feet at 3 feet on a neighbor?s fence.
Does anybody have an opinion as to how much degradation I?m likely to
get from this new antenna?
Thanks and 73,
Bob/AA6VB
Robert L. Chortek
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [8] - Topband
Reflector
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 23:27:00 -0000
From: "Roger Kennedy"
To:
Subject: Topband: Horrendous Local Noise
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Well I haven't been able to come on 160m for over a week, as I
suddenly had
the most horrendous noise all over the band, S9 + 30 dB, all day and
night,
every day !
I have tracked down rogue equipment in neighbours' houses over the
years,
just by using a small AM radio and DF-ing, using the null on the end
of the
internal ferrite rod antenna to show me the direction (you just need
2
bearings). But going out in the street this noise was coming from
everywhere
. . . got loads of different nulls in different directions, depending
on
where I stood.
I figured it must be a major fault with the underground mains cables,
arcing
somewhere. (we have 415V 3-phase running underground over here, and
just one
phase tapped off to each house, which gives 240V against Neutral.)
I called out the company responsible for maintaining the cables, and
they
arrived within an hour. But they could find nothing wrong (they
agreed there
could be arcing underground, but said they didn't have any equipment
to
detect where the fault might be - they just rely on the power going
off to a
particular house!)
So on Wednesday I called OFCOM to report the problem (like your FCC
in the
USA). I figured it would be hard to get them to come and investigate,
and
even then it would take weeks. But they were actually very interested
on the
phone, and I emailed them a Log on the Thursday morning. On Thursday
afternoon the guy responsible for the NE of England rang me, and said
he was
away on holiday for 2 weeks on Monday, so he would try and juggle
appointments so he could come up on Friday afternoon!
Well he drove the 100 miles up here and arrived with a colleague
about 2pm,
spent a while in the shack listening to the noise, and monitoring it
on
their equipment connected to my Top Band dipole. After about 45
minutes they
both went out in the street, and an hour later they came back to say
they
think they had tracked it down.
It actually turned out to be a faulty piece of equipment in a house
up the
street . . . but not radiating directly - it was sending these huge
spikes
back down the Mains . . . and then I guess the wiring in all the
houses
along the street was then re-radiating the noise (which is why I
couldn't DF
it properly).
I was absolutely delighted ! So a big thank you to Alan and Tony from
OFCOM
for coming and sorting my problem so very quickly . . . I really
never
expected such amazing service.
Roger G3YRO
Regards
Roger Kennedy
Wessex Radio Productions
Tel: 0191 250 2715
Website: http://wessexproductions.co.uk [9]
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2021 23:37:53 +0000 (UTC)
From: Jeff Kincaid
To: "topband@contesting.com" , Roger Kennedy
Subject: Re: Topband: Horrendous Local Noise
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Wow!? Not just one, but two jolly good fellows.? Congratulations!
Jeff W6JK
On Friday, November 12, 2021, 03:27:20 PM PST, Roger Kennedy wrote:
Well I haven't been able to come on 160m for over a week, as I
suddenly had
the most horrendous noise all over the band, S9 + 30 dB, all day and
night,
every day !
I have tracked down rogue equipment in neighbours' houses over the
years,
just by using a small AM radio and DF-ing, using the null on the end
of the
internal ferrite rod antenna to show me the direction (you just need
2
bearings). But going out in the street this noise was coming from
everywhere
. . . got loads of different nulls in different directions, depending
on
where I stood.
I figured it must be a major fault with the underground mains cables,
arcing
somewhere. (we have 415V 3-phase running underground over here, and
just one
phase tapped off to each house, which gives 240V against Neutral.)
I called out the company responsible for maintaining the cables, and
they
arrived within an hour. But they could find nothing wrong (they
agreed there
could be arcing underground, but said they didn't have any equipment
to
detect where the fault might be - they just rely on the power going
off to a
particular house!)
So on Wednesday I called OFCOM to report the problem (like your FCC
in the
USA). I figured it would be hard to get them to come and investigate,
and
even then it would take weeks. But they were actually very interested
on the
phone, and I emailed them a Log on the Thursday morning. On Thursday
afternoon the guy responsible for the NE of England rang me, and said
he was
away on holiday for 2 weeks on Monday, so he would try and juggle
appointments so he could come up on Friday afternoon!
Well he drove the 100 miles up here and arrived with a colleague
about 2pm,
spent a while in the shack listening to the noise, and monitoring it
on
their equipment connected to my Top Band dipole. After about 45
minutes they
both went out in the street, and an hour later they came back to say
they
think they had tracked it down.
It actually turned out to be a faulty piece of equipment in a house
up the
street . . . but not radiating directly - it was sending these huge
spikes
back down the Mains . . . and then I guess the wiring in all the
houses
along the street was then re-radiating the noise (which is why I
couldn't DF
it properly).
I was absolutely delighted ! So a big thank you to Alan and Tony from
OFCOM
for coming and sorting my problem so very quickly . . . I really
never
expected such amazing service.
Roger G3YRO
Regards
Roger Kennedy
Wessex Radio Productions
Tel: 0191 250 2715
Website: http://wessexproductions.co.uk [10]
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [11] -
Topband Reflector
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2021 00:47:43 +0100
From: "Peter Voelpel"
To: "'Roger Kennedy'" ,
Subject: Re: Topband: Horrendous Local Noise
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I had a similar problem some years ago with an origin I could not
find
myself.
Big noise on 80m of 9+20dB, about 60kHz wide and moving up and down
the
band.
No chance to DF it with everything conductive reradiating the noise
frequency.
Took our authorities almost 3 hours to find the source, the power
supply of
a sat receiver 3km away!
That was radiating into the phone line which is not underground here
and
distributing it all over the village.
73
Peter, DJ7WW
-----Original Message-----
From: Topband
[mailto:topband-bounces+dj7ww=t-online.de@contesting.com] On
Behalf Of Roger Kennedy
Sent: Samstag, 13. November 2021 00:27
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Horrendous Local Noise
Well I haven't been able to come on 160m for over a week, as I
suddenly had
the most horrendous noise all over the band, S9 + 30 dB, all day and
night,
every day !
I have tracked down rogue equipment in neighbours' houses over the
years,
just by using a small AM radio and DF-ing, using the null on the end
of the
internal ferrite rod antenna to show me the direction (you just need
2
bearings). But going out in the street this noise was coming from
everywhere
. . . got loads of different nulls in different directions, depending
on
where I stood.
I figured it must be a major fault with the underground mains cables,
arcing
somewhere. (we have 415V 3-phase running underground over here, and
just one
phase tapped off to each house, which gives 240V against Neutral.)
I called out the company responsible for maintaining the cables, and
they
arrived within an hour. But they could find nothing wrong (they
agreed there
could be arcing underground, but said they didn't have any equipment
to
detect where the fault might be - they just rely on the power going
off to a
particular house!)
So on Wednesday I called OFCOM to report the problem (like your FCC
in the
USA). I figured it would be hard to get them to come and investigate,
and
even then it would take weeks. But they were actually very interested
on the
phone, and I emailed them a Log on the Thursday morning. On Thursday
afternoon the guy responsible for the NE of England rang me, and said
he was
away on holiday for 2 weeks on Monday, so he would try and juggle
appointments so he could come up on Friday afternoon!
Well he drove the 100 miles up here and arrived with a colleague
about 2pm,
spent a while in the shack listening to the noise, and monitoring it
on
their equipment connected to my Top Band dipole. After about 45
minutes they
both went out in the street, and an hour later they came back to say
they
think they had tracked it down.
It actually turned out to be a faulty piece of equipment in a house
up the
street . . . but not radiating directly - it was sending these huge
spikes
back down the Mains . . . and then I guess the wiring in all the
houses
along the street was then re-radiating the noise (which is why I
couldn't DF
it properly).
I was absolutely delighted ! So a big thank you to Alan and Tony from
OFCOM
for coming and sorting my problem so very quickly . . . I really
never
expected such amazing service.
Roger G3YRO
Regards
Roger Kennedy
Wessex Radio Productions
Tel: 0191 250 2715
Website: http://wessexproductions.co.uk [12]
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [13] -
Topband Reflector
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________
Topband mailing list
Topband@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/topband
/>
------------------------------
End of Topband Digest, Vol 227, Issue 16
****************************************
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[3] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[4] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[5] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[6] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[7] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[8] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[9] http://wessexproductions.co.uk
[10] http://wessexproductions.co.uk
[11] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
[12] http://wessexproductions.co.uk
[13] http://www.contesting.com/_topband
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
|