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Re: Topband: INV-L Radiation Patterns: 15 years of experiments with one

To: "'topband@contesting.com'" <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: INV-L Radiation Patterns: 15 years of experiments with one L, one tree, and 3 acres.
From: W3HKK@roadrunner.com
Reply-to: W3HKK@roadrunner.com
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 19:13:02 +0000
List-post: <mailto:topband@contesting.com>
That's a good question - especially since it relates to your arid soil
- vs my "average" Midwest soil here in Ohio.

Ive done no pattern calculations.

But based on 15 years of reading and personal observations with my 1/4
wave INV-L ( that has grown ( vertically through a black walnut tree)
from 15 ft tall to 52 ft tall, and from one ground rod and zero
radials to the same ground rod and 26 radials, here is what I can say:

1. Have heard of a fat lobe with up to 3 dB gain in the direction
opposite the horizontal/sloping wire. ( For me, that direction is W
towards 6/7-land. I do very well that way, out into the Pacific ( KH6
and VK/ZL.)
2. I did surprisingly well with no radials and just a 15 ft vertical
leg, running 100w. Wkd LZ/4X4/JA my first winter from this qth when I
didnt think it was possible. 
3. Adding a kw amp (10 db) made the biggest improvement in dxing,
compared to anything I did with the L.
4. The L seems to be omnidirectional as you would expect. 
5. As I began to add radials, the swr went down for the first 10-12
radials, then slowly increased until I reached 26 radials, after-which
it plateaued. So I stopped adding radials. 
6. Although arid soil isnt supposed to work well with verticals, there
are some big sigs from guys in AZ so I assume many/more radials make
up for the poor conductivity soil. Probably a lot more than I need. 
7. My current INV-L has been good for >1000 Q's when I put in the time
in 160 contests, and 164 confirmed DX entities to date. 
8. My yard is former farm land, sloping less than 10 degrees. 
9 In contests I have no trouble working N-S-E-W. It varies quite a bit
from contest to contest.
10. I use a SAL-30 rx antenna. No Beverages or short vertical arrays. 

Id be interested in hearing how the addition of radials affects your
swr. What your radial lengths are. Wire type? And what you are
working/directionality?

The lengths of my 26 radials vary due to my sole walnut tree not being
in the center of a 200x700 ft lot. Its off to one side so my radials
vary from 30-130' in length, consisting of #12 & 14 (Cu) and #17 (Al)
wire. Most are bare Al cheap fence wire. All are on the grass. I need
to roll them up for lawn mowing season. If I dont, then I eventually
do, around the tractor blades.

Bob

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To: topband@contesting.com
Cc: 
Sent: Monday January 15 2024 12:00:56PM
Subject: Topband Digest, Vol 253, Issue 18

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 Today's Topics:

 1. Inv L Radiation Patterns? (Steve Harrison)
 2. Re: Inv L Radiation Patterns? (Charles Morrison)
 3. Re: Inv L Radiation Patterns? (Rob Atkinson)

 ----------------------------------------------------------------------

 Message: 1
 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 17:59:22 -0800
 From: Steve Harrison 
 To: topband@contesting.com
 Subject: Topband: Inv L Radiation Patterns?
 Message-ID: 
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

 Has anybody plotted the radiation patterns for inverted Ls on 160?
I'm
 particularly interested in those for relatively-low antennas, say 40
ft
 max, over fairly-poor ground such as desert sand with the water table
 perhaps 120 feet down.

 TNX,

 Steve K0XP

 On 1/2/2024 6:56 AM, VE6WZ_Steve wrote:
 > Today I uploaded a short 6 minute video showing how to use the Kiwi
radios located all over the world to test your transmit antenna.
 >
 > How is the front-to-back on your 4 square really performing?
 > It the dipole or the vertical performing better on the DX path?
 > Make an azimuth polar plot of your Yagi and see how it compares to
modelling. How does the pattern change across the band?
 >
 > This is not a new thing, but in this video I describe the method
for those that may not be familiar with it.
 > No test equipment is needed. All that?s required is a PC sitting
beside your radio.
 >
 > Using the ?S-meter? function on the Kiwi radios makes it quick and
easy to record signal levels from your transmit antenna.
 > This method is far more accurate than trying to estimate a signal
level while watching a bouncing analog or digital S-meter.
 >
 > https://youtu.be/_BMeVJQ_cwI [1] 
 /> >
 > 73, es HNY to all
 > Steve, VE6WZ
 > _________________
 > Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband [2] -
Topband Reflector
 --
 NO on ARRL Bylaw 46!!! See my QRZ.com page at
*https://www.qrz.com/db/K0XP*
 />
 ------------------------------

 Message: 2
 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2024 21:59:30 -0500
 From: Charles Morrison 
 To: topband@contesting.com
 Subject: Re: Topband: Inv L Radiation Patterns?
 Message-ID:

 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

 The modeling i?ve seen plus my own has been +~ 1 to 2dB for 50 - 70
ft
 vertical sections

 -Charlie N1RR

 401-742-7240  8AM - 9PM

 *E-mail*: n1rr@n1rr.com

 *Website*: www.n1rr.com

 *Youtube channel*: NovemberOne RomeoRomeo

 https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPDzEf57Ad80cVKOiLZLB7w/videos
 />

 On Sun, Jan 14, 2024 at 8:59?PM Steve Harrison  wrote:

 > Has anybody plotted the radiation patterns for inverted Ls on 160?
I'm
 > particularly interested in those for relatively-low antennas, say
40 ft
 > max, over fairly-poor ground such as desert sand with the water
table
 > perhaps 120 feet down.
 >
 > TNX,
 >
 > Steve K0XP
 >
 >
 > On 1/2/2024 6:56 AM, VE6WZ_Steve wrote:
 > > Today I uploaded a short 6 minute video showing how to use the
Kiwi
 > radios located all over the world to test your transmit antenna.
 > >
 > > How is the front-to-back on your 4 square really performing?
 > > It the dipole or the vertical performing better on the DX path?
 > > Make an azimuth polar plot of your Yagi and see how it compares
to
 > modelling. How does the pattern change across the band?
 > >
 > > This is not a new thing, but in this video I describe the method
for
 > those that may not be familiar with it.
 > > No test equipment is needed. All that?s required is a PC sitting
beside
 > your radio.
 > >
 > > Using the ?S-meter? function on the Kiwi radios makes it quick
and easy
 > to record signal levels from your transmit antenna.
 > > This method is far more accurate than trying to estimate a signal
level
 > while watching a bouncing analog or digital S-meter.
 > >
 > > https://youtu.be/_BMeVJQ_cwI [3] 
 /> > >
 > > 73, es HNY to all
 > > Steve, VE6WZ
 > > _________________
 > > Searchable Archives:http://www.contesting.com/_topband [4] -
Topband
 > Reflector
 > --
 > NO on ARRL Bylaw 46!!! See my QRZ.com page at *
 > https://www.qrz.com/db/K0XP*
 /> > _________________
 > Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband [5] -
Topband
 > Reflector
 >

 ------------------------------

 Message: 3
 Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 05:32:33 -0600
 From: Rob Atkinson 
 To: topband@contesting.com
 Subject: Re: Topband: Inv L Radiation Patterns?
 Message-ID:

 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

 A bit more field intensity extends in the direction opposite the
 direction of the horizontal part of the inverted L element.

 73

 Rob
 K5UJ

 ------------------------------

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------
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[3] https://youtu.be/_BMeVJQ_cwI
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