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[TowerTalk] Quad vs. yagi

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Subject: [TowerTalk] Quad vs. yagi
From: W8JI@contesting.com (Tom Rauch)
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:27:52 -0500
Hi Dave,

I just read this from W4LC who hit the nail on the head:

Quarter wave 2-element (driven & reflector) 
dipoles, stacked a
quarter-wave
apart and fed in-phase?

> > Most of the benefits of quads are far over-rated. They do not,
> > contrary to folklore, have "2 dB gain over a yagi".
> > 
> > 
>  [Dave D'Epagnier]  As I recall, because Quads are almost always made
> with conductors with much smaller diameter than Yagis, the full
> theoretical gain advantage is usually not realized. FWIW, I've never
> owned a quad but if they are quieter antennas that would be a big plus
> to me. Maybe some day...

Remember they are only quieter in some cases where corona is an 
issue. That would almost always be only during inclement weather, 
and even then in specific situations.

It is not a good general rule.

As for the gain, picture what a quad element is. 

It is two 1/4 wl long dipoles that are "end loaded" by the non-
radiating bent ends. These two short dipoles do not give up much 
gain, because they are end-loaded and most of the ampere-feet are 
in the radiating area. They only give up a tiny bit of gain.

Now you have two of these dipoles, but they are stacked 1/4 wl 
apart.

If you look at the stacking gain in free space of two antennas 
spaced 1/4 wl apart (like on page 8-35 of the 18th Antenna 
Handbook), gain is about 1 dB. You'll find, if you model the 
antenna, that indeed a square quad element in freespace has only 
about 1 dB gain over a dipole!

(If it was a perfect loop instead of a square, gain would be higher 
but still somewhat less than 2 dB.)

Now if you add more elements in front of that one, the more 
directional you make the antenna the less gain advantage the 
"stack" you'll get using the quad configuration. If you place the 
antenna over earth, you'll see at some heights gain advantage is 
zero and at some heights about a dB or so.

The problem with a quad isn't loss in the wire, it's the fact the 
darned thing has no real gain in an ideal case (freespace single 
element)...and anything you do to sharpen the pattern only makes 
it worse.

We wouldn't stack two yagis 1/4 wl apart and bend the elements 
over so the tips touch and expect to see gain, so what the heck do 
we think a wire would have gain just because it is bent the same 
way?

Where does the 2 dB come from? 

It comes from a mistake. 

A couple of fellows measured some quads on 440 MHz and 
assumed the measurements were accurate. That data made it into 
books. Unfortunately they overlooked some errors, and the results 
were flawed. But to this day people still quote the flawed 
conclusions, 2 dB gain over a yagi the same boom length.

Now you see why I pick at measurements and insist they include 
and describe potential errors (and there are ALWAYS potential 
errors). Once something is in print, it remains almost forever even if 
wrong.









  

   



 





 
73, Tom W8JI
w8ji@contesting.com

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