I just gave a 4 el Tet tribander to a friend and cannot locate the manual.
If anyone has one I would really appreciate a copy. Of course I will cover
expenses, mailing, time etc. Thanks, Tommy WD4K
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-admin@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-admin@contesting.com]On Behalf Of
towertalk-request@contesting.com
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 8:42 AM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Towertalk digest, Vol 1 #519 - 13 msgs
Send Towertalk mailing list submissions to
towertalk@contesting.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Towertalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. HDBX-48 Tower Install (jlturner)
2. Re: Antenna Advice verse 15 (ROBKEL@aol.com)
3. Re: Need Antenna Advice! (EUGENE SMAR)
4. tower removal (Earl)
5. Re: tower removal (Bill Hider (N3RR))
6. Re: Need Antenna Advice! (Tom Osborne)
7. Re: Tubular Telescopic Masts (Mike Newman)
8. Re: color wire order for CD-45 (Jim Rhodes)
9. Re: tower removal (n4kg@juno.com)
10. Re: Need Antenna Advice! (n4kg@juno.com)
11. Re: Need Antenna Advice! (Carl Smidt)
12. Re: Need Antenna Advice! (Guy Olinger, K2AV)
13. Re: Need Antenna Advice! (Dinsterdog@aol.com)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: "jlturner" <jlturner@mlgc.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 01:01:00 -0500
Subject: [Towertalk] HDBX-48 Tower Install
Hello All,
I just picked up a Rohn HDBX 48 tower. I am planning on getting it put =
up this fall. What I am wondering is this. It has the tilt over base =
legs with it. I need the three cement anchors for them. The look to be 1 =
inch threaded rod. I am guessing it is a harded rod. Is it best to order =
them from Rohn or can the be made at the local fab shop? Also I am =
wondering the amount of concrete to use in the base. I have been doing a =
bit of looking and and seen 5+5+5 bases. I am wondering if this is ok or =
what the best design is. Also I am wondering how close it can be put to =
the foundation of my house? I do have a cement block type foundation =
with basement.=20
Any info would be a big help! This is my first tower installation. I =
have got by with trees in the past. HI
Thank you in advance.
Jon
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--__--__--
Message: 2
From: ROBKEL@aol.com
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:46:03 EDT
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [Towertalk] Re: Antenna Advice verse 15
I did not know the TH-11 could cover 6m! :^)
Bob, W5LT
--__--__--
Message: 3
From: "EUGENE SMAR" <spelunk.sueno@prodigy.net>
To: "Bruce Osterberg" <bruceosterberg@msn.com>, <K7LXC@aol.com>,
<Aidehua@aol.com>, <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Need Antenna Advice!
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 20:48:54 -0400
TT:
Concur on the Skyhawk. Worked JT1FDI first barefoot call on 20M this
afternoon.
73 de
Gene Smar AD3F
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Osterberg <bruceosterberg@msn.com>
To: K7LXC@aol.com <K7LXC@aol.com>; Aidehua@aol.com <Aidehua@aol.com>;
towertalk@contesting.com <towertalk@contesting.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Friday, September 13, 2002 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Need Antenna Advice!
Based on a lot of on the Air Reports and tests from my own QTH with a an
older KLM KT34XA and a brand new Bencher SKYHAWK, The SKYHAWK is better on
all bands than the KT34XA. Same height but more gain. Best Antenna I ever
had, not promoting the TRI-bander report, but it did help me on which
antenna to buy.
Bruce N9BX 73
>From: K7LXC@aol.com
>To: Aidehua@aol.com, towertalk@contesting.com
>Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Need Antenna Advice!
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
>Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 13:23:43 EDT
>
>In a message dated 9/13/02 9:40:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>Aidehua@aol.com
>writes:
>
> > I currently have in my possession, a TH-11. Now that this
> > SteppIR/Fluidmotion antenna is available, I am wondering if I should
>make
> > the
> > switch??? Haven't put up the TH-11 yet...
>
> Something that will answer a lot of your questions is our tribander
>comparison report. We haven't tested the SteppIR yet but you can can make
>some good inferences from the information presented. The TH-11 is one of
>over
>a dozen tribanders we tested on the air. You can order it from <A
>HREF="http://www.championradio.com";>www.championradio.com</A>.
>
>Cheers,
>Steve K7LXC
>Champion Radio Products
>_______________________________________________
>Self Supporting Towers, Wireless Weather Stations, see web site:
>http://www.mscomputer.com
>Call 888-333-9041 to place your order, mention you saw this ad and take an
>additional 5 percent off
>any weather station price.
>_______________________________________________
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>Towertalk@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_________________________________________________________________
Join the world?s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
_______________________________________________
Self Supporting Towers, Wireless Weather Stations, see web site:
http://www.mscomputer.com
Call 888-333-9041 to place your order, mention you saw this ad and take an
additional 5 percent off
any weather station price.
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
--__--__--
Message: 4
Reply-To: "Earl" <ebailley@direcpc.com>
From: "Earl" <ebailley@direcpc.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:46:47 -0700
Subject: [Towertalk] tower removal
Seeking a little advice about the removal of a well guyed AB 105 to 135 =
ft.
A 75 ft crane is easily available and wondered if, when the guys are =
free, a couple of inches lift at the crane top level would allow =
removal of the lowest section (previously unbolted) to clear the base =
and then lay over the assembled tower for unbolting.
The tower and guys w/grips and insulators will be offered for sale. =
Location is Hansville WA which is on the W side of the Puget Sound.
Any better ideas appreciated as we have no expeience in this area
Earl W7TK
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--__--__--
Message: 5
From: "Bill Hider \(N3RR\)" <n3rr@erols.com>
To: "Earl" <ebailley@direcpc.com>, <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] tower removal
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 22:48:14 -0400
If you wish to re-use or sell the tower, that's not the way to do it.
Likely, the tower will buckle without expert crane operation and experienced
crew, especially since your post implies the crane line is attached to the
tower at the top of the tower!
Understand you admit no experience in this. There are many other ways to
take this tower down, safely and allow for re-use.
Two other ways:
1. Climb it, disconnect top-most guy set, lower guys, unbolt every
bolt/nut/lockwasher in the top-most section while carefully, using a haul
line/bucket or equivalent, lowering down all horizontals/diagonals/hardware
then lowering the verticals (legs) via a haul line. All the forgoing to
avoid damaging them. Then repeat for the remaining 10 foot sections of the
tower. Three of us just completed this operation in Maryland on a 85 footer
and a 100 footer. We were able to take down 1 section in less than 45
minutes - some in 35 minutes. This operation must be done safely as well.
There are climbing/positioning precautions that must be adhered-to as well -
too numerous to type out here. Call me: 301-424-3666, Eastern Time Zone.
2. Climb it, disconnect top-most guy set, lower guys, attach crane line to
top 10 ft section, unbolt only the splice plate, then lower that section
down via crane. Repeat for all sections. Carefully coordinating the crane
with the tower and ground crew ought to increase speed of lowering the tower
by a factor of 3 to 5 or more.
Be sure you have experienced tower climbers and experienced *tower-job*
crane operators. This cannot be overstressed. At least have supervisors
who have experience.
Bill, N3RR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl" <ebailley@direcpc.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 9:46 PM
Subject: [Towertalk] tower removal
Seeking a little advice about the removal of a well guyed AB 105 to 135 ft.
A 75 ft crane is easily available and wondered if, when the guys are free,
a couple of inches lift at the crane top level would allow removal of the
lowest section (previously unbolted) to clear the base and then lay over the
assembled tower for unbolting.
The tower and guys w/grips and insulators will be offered for sale. Location
is Hansville WA which is on the W side of the Puget Sound.
Any better ideas appreciated as we have no expeience in this area
Earl W7TK
--- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
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_______________________________________________
Self Supporting Towers, Wireless Weather Stations, see web site:
http://www.mscomputer.com
Call 888-333-9041 to place your order, mention you saw this ad and take an
additional 5 percent off
any weather station price.
_______________________________________________
Towertalk mailing list
Towertalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
--__--__--
Message: 6
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 03:52:30 +0100
From: Tom Osborne <w7why@harborside.com>
Reply-To: w7why@harborside.com
Organization: Amateur Radio W7WHY
To: TowerTalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Need Antenna Advice!
Jerry Kincade wrote:
>
> Clearly, the next evolutionary level will be a StepIR on a 36' motorized
telescoping boom.
Yeah, and then on a telescoping tower for the best take-off angle
height. 73
Tom W7WHY
--__--__--
Message: 7
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 16:11:44 +1200
From: Mike Newman <mnewman@clear.net.nz>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Tubular Telescopic Masts
To: towertalk@contesting.com
On Wed, 11 Sep 2002 Dino Darling wrote:
> Send a message to Chip @ k7ja@dxer.com He has 2 on his side yard. If I
> remember correctly, there is a small piece of channel, welded to the
length
> of the inside tube that is "keyed" to a slot in a cap that is welded to
the
> top of the outside tube.
>
> These masts are NOT water pipe! They are very thin! It amazes me that
> they even work! These engineers are really smart to get thin metal to
work
> the way they do!
>
It's the welding of the channel rib onto the water-pipe that bothers me -I'm
sure that the pipe will curl from the welding induced stresses. Also
welding will damage the galvanizing on the water-pipe, and it will cost an
arm and a leg to re-galvanize the tube after welding.
Water-pipe is thin - 4" medium galv pipe here has a wall thickness of only
0.178 ".
I've received some photographs that show a rib screwed to inner extension
tube, so those tubes must be thicker than normal waterpipe, otherwise there
wouldn't be sufficient thread length.
I'll get in touch with Chip.
Mike ZL1BNB
--__--__--
Message: 8
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 23:58:13 -0500
To: "FireBrick" <w9ol@billnjudy.com>,
"TowerTalk List" <towertalk@contesting.com>
From: Jim Rhodes <rhodes@evertek.net>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] color wire order for CD-45
I always hook them up in alphabetical order. If do this for all of them,
then you won't be confused by cables with differing colors.
At 04:35 PM 9/13/02, FireBrick wrote:
>I seem to remember a mnemonic that suggested a color code for the 8
>conductor CD-45 rotor.
>I know the Black and White wires need to be used on the higher current
>terminals.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
>When you do a good deed, get a receipt, in case heaven is like the IRS.
>-----------------------------------------------------
>
>Bill H. in Chicagoland
>w9ol@billnjudy.com
>www.billnjudy.com
>http://files.billnjudy.com
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Self Supporting Towers, Wireless Weather Stations, see web site:
>http://www.mscomputer.com
>Call 888-333-9041 to place your order, mention you saw this ad and take an
>additional 5 percent off
>any weather station price.
>_______________________________________________
>Towertalk mailing list
>Towertalk@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
Jim Rhodes K0XU
jim@rhodesend.net
--__--__--
Message: 9
To: TOWERTALK@CONTESTING.COM, ebailley@direcpc.com
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 02:23:02 -0600
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] tower removal
From: n4kg@juno.com
I have witnessed two crane installations of R45 tower.
Sub sections were previously assembled equal to the
spacing between guy wires (30 and 40 ft respectively).
For perfectly vertical lift, THREE straps were attached,
one to each leg, going down through the center. This
worked VERY well. The other assembly used a single
heavy strap and the crane operator / tower guy had to
play with positioning to get each sub-assembly vertical
for engagement. I prefer the three strap method.
I assume the same technique could be used for disassembly.
Tom N4KG
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:46:47 -0700 "Earl" <ebailley@direcpc.com> writes:
> Seeking a little advice about the removal of a well guyed AB 105 to
> 135 ft.
>
> A 75 ft crane is easily available and wondered if, when the guys are
> free, a couple of inches lift at the crane top level would allow
> removal of the lowest section (previously unbolted) to clear the
> base and then lay over the assembled tower for unbolting.
>
> The tower and guys w/grips and insulators will be offered for sale.
> Location is Hansville WA which is on the W side of the Puget Sound.
>
> Any better ideas appreciated as we have no expeience in this area
>
> Earl W7TK
>
>
> --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts ---
> multipart/alternative
> text/plain (text body -- kept)
> text/html
> ---
> _______________________________________________
> Self Supporting Towers, Wireless Weather Stations, see web site:
> http://www.mscomputer.com
> Call 888-333-9041 to place your order, mention you saw this ad and
> take an additional 5 percent off
> any weather station price.
> _______________________________________________
> Towertalk mailing list
> Towertalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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--__--__--
Message: 10
To: TOWERTALK@CONTESTING.COM
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 01:51:43 -0600
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Need Antenna Advice!
From: n4kg@juno.com
The SteppIR 3L Yagi has a 16 ft boom.
This corresponds to 0.46 WL on 10M,
0.34 WL on 15M,
0.23 WL on 20M.
The W2PV Yagi Design Book shows
gain and F/B curves for 3L Yagi's with
boom lengths from 0.1 to 1.0+? WL
and parasitic element tunings offset
by 2,3,4,5,6,7 percent.
Bottom Line: Boom lengths around 0.25 WL
(and odd multiples) exhibit HIGH F/B ratios
but lower gain (-1 dB), Boom Lengths around
0.5 WL exhibit LOW F/B ratios and high gain,
and boom lengths around 0.35 WL are a good
compromise between gain and F/B.
The SteppIR can be optimized for each band
given it's FIXED boomlength, but remember that
for full optimization ALL parameters (including
Boomlength) must be varied. This is NOT the
case with the SteppIR antenna. On 20M, it's
F/B can be made to be near optimum. On 15M,
it can achieve good gain and intermediate F/B,
on 10M it can achieve good gain but LOW F/B
as originally stated.
Tom N4KG
On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 K7LXC@aol.com writes:
> In a message dated 9/13/02 11:07:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> stevek@jmr.com
> writes:
>
> > You might consider how important F/B is to you...the TH11 is
> excellent on
> > all bands; the StepIR is good on 20m and degrades on the higher
> bands..
>
> I think it's the other way around. The StepIR is an optimized 3L
> beam AT
> ALL FREQUENCIES.
>
> Cheers,
> Steve K7LXC
> TOWER TECH
> _______________________________________________
> Self Supporting Towers, Wireless Weather Stations, see web site:
> http://www.mscomputer.com
> Call 888-333-9041 to place your order, mention you saw this ad and
> take an additional 5 percent off
> any weather station price.
> _______________________________________________
> Towertalk mailing list
> Towertalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
--__--__--
Message: 11
From: "Carl Smidt" <smidtca@sprint.ca>
To: <n4kg@juno.com>, <towertalk@contesting.com>
Cc: <SteppIR@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Need Antenna Advice!
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 08:21:50 -0300
Try it Tom and see for yourself.
On 10M I can tune to a strong station, flip the beam 180° and, in most
cases, lose the station in the mud (noise-level). Theory and modeling are
great, but real-life experiences sometimes differ.
A few of us have ventured into the 'unknown' and have been delighted at the
results.
The next step in this innovative design will be a longer boom and more
elements and, of course, at a much higher cost.
However, to see your beam being tuned to the exact operating frequency as
you tune your transceiver, with a VSWR of 1.1 : 1.0 and then being answered
by the other station, in a pile-up, usually on the first or second call,
with your linear sitting there cold and unused, feeling totally left out, is
exhilarating, at least to me.
Being the only one in Canada with one, feels pretty good also, even though
this particular uniqueness won't be long lasting.
Try one, you will like it!
73, Carl VE9OV
----- Original Message -----
From: <n4kg@juno.com>
To: <TOWERTALK@contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 4:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Need Antenna Advice!
> The SteppIR 3L Yagi has a 16 ft boom.
>
> This corresponds to 0.46 WL on 10M,
> 0.34 WL on 15M,
> 0.23 WL on 20M.
>
> The W2PV Yagi Design Book shows
> gain and F/B curves for 3L Yagi's with
> boom lengths from 0.1 to 1.0+? WL
> and parasitic element tunings offset
> by 2,3,4,5,6,7 percent.
>
> Bottom Line: Boom lengths around 0.25 WL
> (and odd multiples) exhibit HIGH F/B ratios
> but lower gain (-1 dB), Boom Lengths around
> 0.5 WL exhibit LOW F/B ratios and high gain,
> and boom lengths around 0.35 WL are a good
> compromise between gain and F/B.
>
> The SteppIR can be optimized for each band
> given it's FIXED boomlength, but remember that
> for full optimization ALL parameters (including
> Boomlength) must be varied. This is NOT the
> case with the SteppIR antenna. On 20M, it's
> F/B can be made to be near optimum. On 15M,
> it can achieve good gain and intermediate F/B,
> on 10M it can achieve good gain but LOW F/B
> as originally stated.
>
> Tom N4KG
>
> On Fri, 13 Sep 2002 K7LXC@aol.com writes:
> > In a message dated 9/13/02 11:07:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > stevek@jmr.com
> > writes:
> >
> > > You might consider how important F/B is to you...the TH11 is
> > excellent on
> > > all bands; the StepIR is good on 20m and degrades on the higher
> > bands..
> >
> > I think it's the other way around. The StepIR is an optimized 3L
> > beam AT
> > ALL FREQUENCIES.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Steve K7LXC
> > TOWER TECH
> > _______________________________________________
> > Self Supporting Towers, Wireless Weather Stations, see web site:
> > http://www.mscomputer.com
> > Call 888-333-9041 to place your order, mention you saw this ad and
> > take an additional 5 percent off
> > any weather station price.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Towertalk mailing list
> > Towertalk@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> >
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
> Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
> Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
> http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
> _______________________________________________
> Self Supporting Towers, Wireless Weather Stations, see web site:
http://www.mscomputer.com
> Call 888-333-9041 to place your order, mention you saw this ad and take an
additional 5 percent off
> any weather station price.
> _______________________________________________
> Towertalk mailing list
> Towertalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
--__--__--
Message: 12
From: "Guy Olinger, K2AV" <k2av@contesting.com>
To: <TOWERTALK@contesting.com>, <n4kg@juno.com>
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Need Antenna Advice!
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 09:59:58 -0400
Without getting into the whys of our fascination with SWR, the StepIR
answers the concern of all those who cannot stand their SWR to be
anything other than 1:1, all other concerns notwithstanding.
Or those who need their antenna to work across an entire octave of HF
without the element/trap complexity of other solutions.
Or those who might want to pull in the element length for reasons of
appearance, wind drag, etc, when not operating.
Given that people have tolerated decidedly inferior designs from
M****** all these years and defended them to the end, I can't see that
the StepIR particularly deserves any duns, other than the moving parts
are a complexity that will sooner or later must place it in the
category of the KT34XA, a favorite, and a performer, that has
mechanical issues that must be dealt with in the long term.
As to how long and exactly what issues, the StepIR needs the time in
grade to see how it does in various environments. Each owner will have
their own tolerances to whatever develops, and what it takes to keep
it in repair.
I think that Tom's issues are overstated for the purposes of clarity,
but in force for theoretical discussions.
Anyone with YO can run a 3 element problem with the fixed spacings and
boom length of the StepIR and see that there is a continuous solution
from 20 to 10, whose accomodation to boom length is no ghastly
compromise.
The front-to-back penalty experienced on the StepIR at 10m is less
than the f/b penalty routinely ignored when stacking two yagis
designed to be used one at a time in the clear.
Again, the mechanics will be the achille's heel, if any.
73, Guy.
--__--__--
Message: 13
From: Dinsterdog@aol.com
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 10:37:57 EDT
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Need Antenna Advice!
To: TOWERTALK@contesting.com
I think the step yagi is a very cool concept......but why not just go with a
short boom log periodic, like a T6, or a small Force 12, and save the
potential for future mechanical problems? I would love to test a step yagi
compared to other short boom beams- Has anyone had a chance to do this and
if
so, what were the results?
73 Paul N0AH/7
The Furthest SE W7 Station in the World- Har!
--__--__--
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End of Towertalk Digest
|