Jason.... with all due respect to Jon...I do a lot of stuff myself, and I
certainly share his conservatism about "Big Brother"...asking forgiveness is
frequently better and easier than asking permission! However, it's only
right that you get a little info on the other side of the coin. The permit
and inspection business is not just another way to tax the citizenry...
there are some solid engineering and insurance aspects as well.
A city or town is tasked by the general public to ensure that all
construction and structures in its jurisdiction at least meet a certain
standard for engineering practice. Carpenters, plumbers, electricians are
all licensed on the basis of doing work that meets that standard, or "code".
When we hire one of these professionals, we are entitled to rely on his work
meeting code. And (even if he doesn't have the foggiest notion in reality)
when the town engineer signs off on the permit after the job is complete,
he's certifying that the job meets code (but he's also relying on the
carpenter, plumber, or electrician's cert).
If there's a fire, for example, and it can be traced to non-code compliant
work, the insurance company may be hesitant to pay off. If your installation
doesn't meet code, and you have a visitor in your garage when the roof falls
in under the load of your tower, beam, and several snowstorms worth of
frozen water... the insurance company may be reluctant to pay your guest's
claim. Etc. Call it a sort of paranoia, but that's the kind of risk we pay
premiums to cover, isn't it?
This permit-code-inspection system is far from perfect, but the intention is
not only to ensure the relative safety of the homeowner who has the work
done, but also any future buyer of that property. When you buy a home, you
may have it inspected, but if you ask one of those guys he'll tell you (mine
did) that they RELY on the code. When you buy a property, you're entitled to
expect it meets code. And when you sell a property, you are (in most places)
certifying that it meets code to the best of your knowledge. I'm no lawyer
(I just play one here on the internet) but I think if you are damaged in
some way by someone's failure to observe these niceties, there would be some
recourse agaisnt those responsible. Even if there wasn't any legal recourse
to worry about, there is at least some moral obligation to meet the code
standards.
So, Jason, you can take out the permit, meet the code, pass the
inspection... or... do it yourself with your own level of expertise, and
take a chance that your actions today MIGHT result at some future time in
damage or injury to yourself, your family and friends, or somebody who buys
your place in future years. It's all in whether you have the expertise and
credentials to do it yourself, and what level of risk you are willing to
undertake. It's you that must decide what is the right thing to do. That's
the other side of the picture.
73, Jerry K3BZ
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-admin@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-admin@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Jon Ogden
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 2:03 PM
To: Jason Hissong; TOWERTALK@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Towertalk] Roof Tower stuff.... 2 by 4s, city, :(
Jason,
First mistake: Going to the city to get a permit for a roof tower.
If you were going to put up a small roof tripod for a TV antenna would you
get a permit? Likely not.
I've said this many, many times. But now the can of worms is open.
Moral of the story: Tis better to beg forgiveness than to ask permission.
If you or anyone else just puts a roof tower up and does it properly with
good engineering, then likely no one will notice. The city does not send
people out and about looking to see who has a new tower up! Likely the
inspector will have NO clue about what is or isn't needed. Secondly, the
tower isn't a permanent structure attachment either. So there's all kinds
of outs with the city if you don't take it to them first.
Now you are in a pickle and you'll have to do a lot more work than was
necessary. If you would have just put it up, the city probably wouldn't
have said anything. And if they then did, what they would do would want to
inspect it then and you'd have to pay a fine. The fine is typically double
the permit cost. And that is a LOT less than what you will have to pay to
have an engineer look at your idea.
Next time, just throw it up. I've had my 14.5 foot roof tower up for 5
years and no one has said boo. And I just threw up 50 feet of Rohn 25 too.
And my city officially says that you have to get a permit just to even wire
in a new light fixture!
Now, as for your 2x4 problem. That sucks that your house isn't better
built. You can easily design a mount that will reinforce your 2x4s and will
make it stronger than Glen Martin's drawing. Several of us have discussed
this hear before. If you want pictures from my attic, I can provide them.
Likely, the way your city sounds, you are just going to have to get an
engineer anyhow, so do what he would suggest. Putting up any kind of a
tower is going to cost money, so belly up to the bar.
I just despise the attitude that we have developed in this country where we
have to run to the government for permission to do something on our own
PRIVATE property. Screw them! It's my property. I own it and if I do a
proper, well-engineered job and I have the ability to do such whose damn
business is it but mine. And I am not just talking about towers here
either! Whatever happened to private property rights!
UGH!
73,
Jon
NA9D
on 12/7/02 7:15 AM, Jason Hissong at jhisson1@columbus.rr.com wrote:
> I just noticed that my garage uses 2x4's for trusses (why I did not pick
> this up before I will never know). The GM instructions show 2x6's. Can I
> still put this thing up?
>
> The city is giving me a hard time on putting this up. GM uses BOCA 1993
> standards and the city requires the new 2002 standards. Also, GM has a
> "disclaimer" that I may need an engineer to come in and analyze the
> structure. The city picked up on that immediately. (This is a standard
> disclaimer that GM does)... I may have to hire an engineer but how much
> would that cost?
>
> My tower woes begin... I thought I was going to put it up today... buit
not
> going to happen..
-------------------------------------
Jon Ogden
NA9D (ex: KE9NA)
Citizen of the People's Democratic Republik of Illinois
Life Member: ARRL, NRA
Member: AMSAT, DXCC
http://www.qsl.net/na9d
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
_______________________________________________
AN Wireless Self Supporting Towers at discounted prices,
See http://www.mscomputer.com
Wireless Weather Stations now $349.95. Call Toll Free,
888-333-9041 for additional information.
_______________________________________________
Towertalk mailing list
Towertalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
|