I think Jim's comments were right on the mark, particularly
as they relate to the "counterfeit goods" problem.
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Jim
Lux
Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 11:59 AM
To: Gene Bigham; towertalk@contesting.com; WD0M
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] New? Cable
> May I suggest you take action, rather than just "one might
wonder" and
toss
> out implications of property right infringements, that you
call Times
> Microwave at 800-TMS-COAX (867-2629), and let them know of
your concerns?
>
> Many different companies make RG-8 coax
equivalents.....and I haven't
heard
> anyone complaining about that.
RG-8 is a published specification in the public domain.
Anyone can make
something, call it RG-8, and as long as it meets the
published
specification, they're perfectly ok to do so. If they make
something, call
it RG-8, and it doesn't meet the specs, then they're
committing a fraud.
If they make something called "RG-8 similar" or "designed to
RG-8
specifications" or any other weasel words, they're also ok.
If you buy it,
and it falls apart, or doesn't meet RG-8 specs, that's your
problem, because
they never claimed it actually was RG-8.
LMR400 IS a proprietary part number and a trademark for
Times-Microwave,
just as Belden 9913 is a proprietary partnumber for Belden,
both for high
performance "RG-8 like" coaxial cable (i.e. 50 ohms, 0.4
inch in diameter,
etc.).
No matter if you went out and made coax that was identical
in performance to
LMR-400, you still can't call it LMR-400. No matter if you
reverse engineer
LMR-400 and make it yourself with the same materials, you
can't call it
LMR-400.
You might be able to call it "LMR-400 similar" or "meets
LMR-400 specs" or
anything along those lines. Times Microwave might have a
problem with you
using their tradename to promote your product, but then,
they might not.
Times Microwave might have patented their design for coaxial
cable with low
loss, in which case, you could certainly NOT reverse
engineer it and
duplicate the stuff, assuming the patent is still in force.
There's also the sticky issue of what specifications is
Jefatech actually
claiming they meet with this stuff. Clearly they can't
claim to meet ALL of
LMR-400's specifications (since that would probably embody
some trade
secrets of Times Microwave, as far as materials used in
construction,
etc.). They could claim that they meet some specifications
on performance,
loss, aging, stability etc, which they are perfectly free to
copy from Times
Microwave's datasheet or Belden's or whoever's.
The spool is marked "Jefatech", and the
> coax is labeled the same way - nothing about "LMR400".
>
> Does that assuage your "wonderment"?
It does answer my question... the stuff is "low loss coax
claimed to be
similar in properties to LMR-400 with no guarantee of future
or present
performance" which is just fine. If it works, it meets
your budget, etc,
then it's great stuff. It fits in the great middle ground
of products
between "traceability to sand" cable with a pallet load of
certs and what
you find in the waterlogged dumpster at the end of the
hamfest.
I do find, though, that vendors that attempt to trade off
the reputation of
another product are a bit objectionable (depending on how
blatant they
are..), and, I also find that there is a distressing
tendency in today's
price sensitive market to turn a blind eye to fairly blatant
ripoffs
produced by offshore suppliers.
I find JefaTech's website a bit objectionable, because
they've tried to
create the impression (in my mind at least) that they're
selling LMR400 or
an exact copy, but have included a few weasel words to try
to keep them out
of legal hot water. Why not just say in the copy: "low loss
0.4 inch 50 ohm
coax with 0.01 dB/100 ft loss at 30 MHz". They could even
put in a
comparative table showing their performance against LMR400
and 9913. I
recognize that they identify the stuff as LMR-400 because
that's a handy
shorthand for describing the coax. Lots of people know what
LMR-400 is,
mechanically, electrically, etc.
I think that we, as educated consumers, do have a
responsibility to not
support vendors and manufacturers who are unethical. Most
companies don't
have the resources to track down every infringer, and rely
on their trade
reputation (why the label and the brandname is important)
and that buyers
will know the difference. You'll have to decide for yourself
where the
boundary lies.
Jefatech may be selling a great product, and if they are, I
commend them,
and if you're happy with their product, you should tell them
so. If you
think they've got a great product, but that they're getting
towards a
disreputable salesmanship (perhaps out of ignorance or lack
of concern) then
you should tell them so. If, on the other hand, you think
that Jefatech is
wonderful because they're selling a cheap knockoff or
de-facto counterfeit
of the real thing, and you think you are "getting a great
deal", shame on
you.
And, for those who think that this is irrelevant to a hobby,
think again.
Counterfeit goods are a real problem, not just an
inconvenience. The
eternal downward pressure on pricing from large retailers
has created a real
incentive for manufacturers (on and off shore) to make
products that look
"good enough". In the last year there have been counterfeit
aircraft
replacement parts; counterfeit structural bolts; counterfeit
wire rope; and
so forth, all driven by a "lowest cost" objective, and
things like testing,
inspections, and just general good manufacturing care often
fall by the
wayside. Next time you're cranking that tower up, think
about it. What if
the steel cable happened to be an "oops, the galvanizing
didn't work quite
like we hoped, but ship it anyway because we can sell it at
a reduced price
to the buyer at Home Depot" batch?
Jim, W6RMK
_______________________________________________
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Towers", "Wireless Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call
Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any questions and ask for
Sherman, W2FLA.
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_______________________________________________
See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless Weather
Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any questions
and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
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