Larry,
I have my tower 200 feet from my shack. When we were installing a sprinkler
system, I had the guys run the trencher from my shack to the tower base. I
used 4" PVC sewer pipe for my cable run.
This stuff is relatively cheap and comes in 10 foot sections, plus it is
water tight if you glue the joints.
I ran a black Dacron rope through the pipe as I put it in the ground, and
used electrical PVC bends for the turns.
I put in a couple of junction boxes, for these I used sprinkler control
boxes. These things are about 1 1/2' X 2', with a removable lid/top. But
larger sizes are available
Look around and find a local supplier that carries sprinkler systems, parts,
pipe, etc. I found that they are a little cheaper than the box stores and
have everything you need.
73 Bruce, K5PX
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of
towertalk-request@contesting.com
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 7:23 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 79, Issue 67
Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Tower Base Installed Above Ground (Robert West)
2. Cable Runs (Larry Boekeloo)
3. Spiderbeam Wind Load (John Kemker)
4. Re: Cable Runs (Jim Hargrave)
5. Re: Cable Runs (Gene Smar)
6. Re: Cable Runs (TexasRF@aol.com)
7. Re: Cable Runs (Tod -ID)
8. Re: Cable Runs (KI9A@aol.com)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 09:40:37 -0400
From: "Robert West" <robert.west@just-micro.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Tower Base Installed Above Ground
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <00b001ca0ebf$d3039450$790abcf0$@west@just-micro.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I have this BX64 tower that I'm fixing up and want to install it next to the
shop at home. The Dig Safe people came out and marked it all and I now see
that the only place the city will allow me to put this thing is covered with
gas lines, water line and an underground electric cable running across the
property to a commercial building behind me.
Is it possible to dig down a couple of feet, put in a compacted gravel mix
and then build a reinforced box on top of it with a rebar cage and pour 5
years of concrete in it and use this as the base? I can also bracket it to
the building, which is concrete block, up to 13 feet. I've seen it done
with tower installations where there is rock but they are able to bond it
with anchors in the rock. I don't seem to be able to have that luxury,
only gravity. Is this kosher to attempt this route? I'm going to shoot off
an email to Rohn with this but wanted to know if anyone here has went this
way before.
And will 5 yards of concrete sitting on top of soil shift considerably over
time? I'd really hate to have another reason for the wife to give me "that
look". J
Thanks guys.
Bob-
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 07:45:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Larry Boekeloo <lboekeloo@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Cable Runs
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <211608.43701.qm@web80707.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
My new tower will be 200 feet from the shack.? Any ideas what to run the
cables in underground?? Pvc?? Flexbile black piping??
I'll have four runs of hardline and three runs of rotor cable.? Looking for
ideas from the group.
Thanks.
Larry, KN8N
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 17:42:53 -0400
From: John Kemker <john@kemker.org>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Spiderbeam Wind Load
To: towertalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <4A6E1F5D.7080309@kemker.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Has anyone modeled the wind load on a Spiderbeam (the commercial HD
version)?
--
--JohnK
73 de W5NNH
10X 75371/M&M 117/SMIRK 6185/Six Club 285/TRA 2499/Norcross 228 F&AM
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:03:55 -0000
From: "Jim Hargrave" <w5ifp@gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cable Runs
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <DCECKDJAOBPBLOFNKPLFOEMOCIAA.w5ifp@gvtc.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Larry,
My tower is 100ft from the house and I run my cables underground in schedule
40 PVC.
The Black pipe is ok and cheaper, however it is vulnerable to shovels and
can callapse from heavy weight such as lawn tractors or vehicles across the
area. If it collapses then it is difficult to pull cable through it. Rigid
PVC is a little easier to pull cables through, especially if you have any
turns. If you use common white PVC be sure and get the gray electrical
elbows for turns where you come out of the ground. The electrical elbows
have a wider radius, making it easier to pull the cables through.
* 73's Jim W5IFP *
>-----Original Message-----
>From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
>[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Larry Boekeloo
>Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 2:46 PM
>To: towertalk@contesting.com
>Subject: [TowerTalk] Cable Runs
>
>
>My new tower will be 200 feet from the shack.? Any ideas what
>to run the cables in underground?? Pvc?? Flexbile black piping??
>
>I'll have four runs of hardline and three runs of rotor cable.?
>Looking for ideas from the group.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Larry, KN8N
>_______________________________________________
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>TowerTalk mailing list
>TowerTalk@contesting.com
>http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:11:54 -0400
From: "Gene Smar" <ersmar@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cable Runs
To: "Larry Boekeloo" <lboekeloo@sbcglobal.net>,
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <1A4FC1578F7542A0ABB2C8F09463C2F0@GenePC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Larry:
For that length of conduit run, I'd advise against corrugated drain
pipe. The leading end of the cable/snake rope will get caught in the
corrugations along the way. You ought to consider two parallel runs, too,
to accommodate the largish hardline runs.
I'd recommend using PVC conduit - the gray stuff that was meant for
pulling cables through. You didn't say whether this 200 feet was a straight
line or included turns. If turns, then make them with PVC sweeps - NOT
elbows. The sweeps area a gentle radius, rather than an abrupt change in
direction that is difficult to pull - especially hardline - through. You
can buy the sweeps at an electrical supply store, where you would also buy
the PVC conduit and its glue.
No matter whether you've got a straight shot or a path with bends, make
sure you have one or more low spots in the conduit run. Water will drain to
these low spots (and water WILL get into the conduit.) Then simply drill a
few half-inch diameter holes in the underside of the conduit at these low
spots and cover the holes with landscaping fabric (the kind that lets water
drain in only one direction) and tie the fabric in place around the conduit
at the holes with #14 solid wire (it's cheap.)
The final step is to construct a sump well underneath the holes into
which the conduit water will spill. This sump drain is a hole that you
refill with gravel or crushed rocks. Some folks might call this a French
drain. The size of the sump drain hole depends on how many low spots you
have and how much water each drain hole must disperse.
A final bit of advice: When you lay out your cable at one end of the
conduit run, don't lay it out in a long, straight line. If you do, you'll
be pulling the entire length of the cable all the time. Instead, lay out
your cable on the ground at one end of the conduit run in a serpentine
pattern (remember "The Inlaws"?) at right angles to the conduit run so that
you are adding only one S-curve of cable to the pull weight at a time. The
cable will look kind of like this === SSSSSS before you pull, with the top
of one S connected to the bottom of the next one, etc. (The == is the
conduit.)
73 de
Gene Smar AD3F
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Boekeloo" <lboekeloo@sbcglobal.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: [TowerTalk] Cable Runs
My new tower will be 200 feet from the shack. Any ideas what to run the
cables in underground? Pvc? Flexbile black piping?
I'll have four runs of hardline and three runs of rotor cable. Looking for
ideas from the group.
Thanks.
Larry, KN8N
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:49:59 EDT
From: TexasRF@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cable Runs
To: ersmar@verizon.net, lboekeloo@sbcglobal.net,
towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <cf6.5b0ab547.379f8917@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Gene's email is chock full of good ideas and advice. The serpentine step is
a stroke of genius!
A corrugated drain pipe can also be used if an additional step is added:
where the pull cables and wires merge together, create a round ball shape by
wrapping the bundle with electrical tape. A diameter about inch greater
than the cable bundle works well. The "ball" is far easier to drag across
the
corrugations than the cable ends snagging every foot or two.
Don't forget to pull in a secondary pull rope along with the cables in case
you ever want to add or replace a cable later. This also gives a way to
back up in case something really gets hung up inside the pipe.
73,
Gerald K5GW
In a message dated 7/27/2009 5:12:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
ersmar@verizon.net writes:
Larry:
For that length of conduit run, I'd advise against corrugated drain
pipe. The leading end of the cable/snake rope will get caught in the
corrugations along the way. You ought to consider two parallel runs, too,
to accommodate the largish hardline runs.
I'd recommend using PVC conduit - the gray stuff that was meant for
pulling cables through. You didn't say whether this 200 feet was a
straight
line or included turns. If turns, then make them with PVC sweeps - NOT
elbows. The sweeps area a gentle radius, rather than an abrupt change in
direction that is difficult to pull - especially hardline - through. You
can buy the sweeps at an electrical supply store, where you would also buy
the PVC conduit and its glue.
No matter whether you've got a straight shot or a path with bends, make
sure you have one or more low spots in the conduit run. Water will drain
to
these low spots (and water WILL get into the conduit.) Then simply drill
a
few half-inch diameter holes in the underside of the conduit at these low
spots and cover the holes with landscaping fabric (the kind that lets
water
drain in only one direction) and tie the fabric in place around the
conduit
at the holes with #14 solid wire (it's cheap.)
The final step is to construct a sump well underneath the holes into
which the conduit water will spill. This sump drain is a hole that you
refill with gravel or crushed rocks. Some folks might call this a French
drain. The size of the sump drain hole depends on how many low spots you
have and how much water each drain hole must disperse.
A final bit of advice: When you lay out your cable at one end of the
conduit run, don't lay it out in a long, straight line. If you do, you'll
be pulling the entire length of the cable all the time. Instead, lay out
your cable on the ground at one end of the conduit run in a serpentine
pattern (remember "The Inlaws"?) at right angles to the conduit run so
that
you are adding only one S-curve of cable to the pull weight at a time.
The
cable will look kind of like this === SSSSSS before you pull, with the top
of one S connected to the bottom of the next one, etc. (The == is the
conduit.)
73 de
Gene Smar AD3F
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Boekeloo" <lboekeloo@sbcglobal.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Monday, July 27, 2009 10:45 AM
Subject: [TowerTalk] Cable Runs
My new tower will be 200 feet from the shack. Any ideas what to run the
cables in underground? Pvc? Flexbile black piping?
I'll have four runs of hardline and three runs of rotor cable. Looking for
ideas from the group.
Thanks.
Larry, KN8N
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
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=JulystepsfooterNO115)
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 18:02:58 -0600
From: "Tod -ID" <tod@k0to.us>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cable Runs
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <F127996E8FF642228E1EF94548A9B793@CHEM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Larry:
The really good ideas have already been expressed. I have a couple of things
that you might want to consider if your particular layout makes them
sensible. I
have a 200 foot run from the house to the base of the HF tower. On the way I
make "stops" for other antenna locations. There are two bends in the run.
1. I hired an under-employed plumber to use his trencher to make a three
foot
deep 18" wide trench. The cost was nominal and might be reduced if you rent
one
and do it yourself.
2. I used one 3" and one 4" white PVC conduit designed for carrying water
[from
Home Depot] for the combination of hard lines [3 each 3/4" diam, 3 each 1/2"
diam] and control cables [2 rotator, 2 14-conductor cables] PLUS a separate
electrical conduit that carries 117 vac to each of the tower bases. I
deliberately separated the 117 vac to avoid potential problems.
3. At each tower base GFI outlets are installed to provide convenient power.
4. At each bend I installed a large Rubbermaid box, 20 gallon or so. I cut
holes
in the boxes for each size of conduit to enter at one end and exit at the
other.
I used silicone adhesive to seal the box-conduit junctions. I built a frame
[using redwood or treated wood to avoid rotting] to keep the dirt away from
the
top area of the box and then covered the frame with wood boards. Finally, I
put
a large piece of flagstone over the top of each box. The location of the
boxes
is easy to find and even though they are in the middle of my lawn my wife is
not
troubled by them. The runs slope upward from the boxes so that water
entering
the conduits flows to the boxes. I perforated the bottom of each box with
several holes to allow the water to seep into the ground below the box.
5. I inserted a length of 1/8" Dacron rope in each of the large conduits and
then tied the ends together. When I pull on one side the cord on the other
side
moves too. The maximum length of a single run is 70 feet. I used the 1/8"
round-and-round cord to pull another line through one on the conduits. That
new
line is used to pull additional control lines and CATV lines.
6. Since the length of each PVC section was 10 feet I had to assemble
lengths
into the run lengths I needed. At the time I installed the conduits I
inserted
the CATV hard line and control cables as I built the conduit. No pulling was
required. Naturally, after I started operating the system I found I wanted
more
feed lines and control lines. That was when I was happy I had inserted the
round-and-round 1/8" cord when I built the conduit.
7. Buy or borrow a Kellem grip and get a lot of lubricant when you pull
additional lines through the conduit. You will be happy that you made the
lines
slippery and that you had something that really grip the end of the line
tightly.
I hope at least one of those ideas turns out to be useful for you.
73, Tod, K0TO
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2009 20:22:59 EDT
From: KI9A@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cable Runs
To: tod@k0to.us
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <d44.4e6c46bd.379f9ee3@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
As a construction Electrician the past 25 years, the only thing I can add
to Tod's install is to pull a #10 or #10 stranded THHN wire in the conduit,
instead of a rope, or string. It's been my experience, that using a string
or rope for future pulls is not a good idea. The rope will ALWAYS wrap
around other cables, and when you pull it out, it WILL burn thru
insulation.
If you use a wire ( and lots of lube like Tod says), it'll slip right past
the others.
Hi idea of separating the 120 volts from the other cables is GREAT idea
also. Plus, the electrical code prohibits that, unless the insulation on
the
control cable is rated for same voltage ( i.e. 600 volts).
Tod, sounds like a great install! I would follow his advice!
73- Chuck KI9A
In a message dated 7/27/2009 7:03:27 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
tod@k0to.us writes:
Larry:
The really good ideas have already been expressed. I have a couple of
things
that you might want to consider if your particular layout makes them
sensible. I
have a 200 foot run from the house to the base of the HF tower. On the way
I
make "stops" for other antenna locations. There are two bends in the run.
1. I hired an under-employed plumber to use his trencher to make a three
foot
deep 18" wide trench. The cost was nominal and might be reduced if you
rent one
and do it yourself.
2. I used one 3" and one 4" white PVC conduit designed for carrying water
[from
Home Depot] for the combination of hard lines [3 each 3/4" diam, 3 each
1/2"
diam] and control cables [2 rotator, 2 14-conductor cables] PLUS a separate
electrical conduit that carries 117 vac to each of the tower bases. I
deliberately separated the 117 vac to avoid potential problems.
3. At each tower base GFI outlets are installed to provide convenient
power.
4. At each bend I installed a large Rubbermaid box, 20 gallon or so. I cut
holes
in the boxes for each size of conduit to enter at one end and exit at the
other.
I used silicone adhesive to seal the box-conduit junctions. I built a frame
[using redwood or treated wood to avoid rotting] to keep the dirt away
from the
top area of the box and then covered the frame with wood boards. Finally,
I put
a large piece of flagstone over the top of each box. The location of the
boxes
is easy to find and even though they are in the middle of my lawn my wife
is not
troubled by them. The runs slope upward from the boxes so that water
entering
the conduits flows to the boxes. I perforated the bottom of each box with
several holes to allow the water to seep into the ground below the box.
5. I inserted a length of 1/8" Dacron rope in each of the large conduits
and
then tied the ends together. When I pull on one side the cord on the other
side
moves too. The maximum length of a single run is 70 feet. I used the 1/8"
round-and-round cord to pull another line through one on the conduits.
That new
line is used to pull additional control lines and CATV lines.
6. Since the length of each PVC section was 10 feet I had to assemble
lengths
into the run lengths I needed. At the time I installed the conduits I
inserted
the CATV hard line and control cables as I built the conduit. No pulling
was
required. Naturally, after I started operating the system I found I wanted
more
feed lines and control lines. That was when I was happy I had inserted the
round-and-round 1/8" cord when I built the conduit.
7. Buy or borrow a Kellem grip and get a lot of lubricant when you pull
additional lines through the conduit. You will be happy that you made the
lines
slippery and that you had something that really grip the end of the line
tightly.
I hope at least one of those ideas turns out to be useful for you.
73, Tod, K0TO
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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=JulystepsfooterNO115)
------------------------------
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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 79, Issue 67
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