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Re: [TowerTalk] securing loose element ends

To: w2lu@rochester.rr.com, roger@rogerhalstead.com, towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] securing loose element ends
From: TexasRF@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 10:35:55 EDT
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Or, widen the existing slot a bit. Takes only one cut instead of two,  
preserves strength, less elbow stress. A Dremel tool works great for this.
 
73,
Gerald K5GW
 
 
In a message dated 9/23/2010 8:50:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
w2lu@rochester.rr.com writes:

I may be  missing something here, but when I make an element, if the clamp 
doesn't  quite firm up the joint I just get the hack saw out and cut 
another 
slot,  90 degrees around the circumfrence from the first and that allows 
for 
a  bit more compression and preserves the potential for further length  
adjustment.
Gene / W2LU


----- Original Message -----  
From: "Roger" <roger@rogerhalstead.com>
To:  <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 12:52  AM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] securing loose element ends


> On  9/23/2010 12:25 AM, Kevin Normoyle wrote:
>>
>>>> Hi  TT'ers,
>>>> I was putting together my Hygain Ex 14 today and  found something I
>>>> hadn't expected. When tightening up the  hose clamps to secure the
>>>> ends of the elements (7/16")  that regardless of how hard I cranked
>>>> the clamps, the tips  were still loose enough that they could easily
>>>> be pulled  out-maybe 10# of pressure!
>>
>> I like rivets. But I think  there's a different issue here. Rivets are 
>> nice for telescoping  straight tubes that fit
>> nicely within each other.  And
>>
> As do I, but they will also work with properly swaged  and fitted 
elements.
>
>> in fact I just ordered a bunch of  Avex rivets from Aircraft Spruce, 
>> because I was getting too many  mandrels breaking off
>> on some Pop Rivet brand rivets. I read good  things about the Avex 
rivets, 
>> but haven't used them yet.  Interestingly they
>> have a wider grip range than the Pop Rivet ones  I was using.
>
> I think you will find the piece that fits into  the tool (I've forgotten
> the name of it) has barbed like edges, almost  like a bee's leg. These
> expand the gripping range.  "I think"  (meaning I don't remember for
> sure) they are also "blind rivets" so  moisture will not go through them.
>
> What rivets do other people  use? I also switched to a
>> different rivet tool.
>>  http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/avexblindriv.php
>>
>  I don't think the tool will make a great deal of difference if it fits
>  correctly and works the way it's supposed to.
>
>> But the  problem with Hygain, is the joints are swaged. And the swage is 
>>  not that precise, so you don't get good contact
>> on hte inner  surfaces.
>
> A swaged joint "can be precise", but the dies wear  and they are
> expensive so manufacturers get every last mile out of  them.
>>
> I've thought of trying this, but on a larger scale  using rollers on
> larger tubing.  The problem with swaging or  working Aluminum is the
> stuff work hardens FAST.  But  at-any-rate, Those who have worked with
> lathes are probably familiar  with the hand held knurling tool.  It's
> hinged at the outer end,  then back in a ways are two wheels on one side
> and one on the  other.  The piece to be knurled is held in and turned by
> the  lathe.  The knurling tool is placed over the tube with pressure
>  applied to the handles, impressing the knurl into the Aluminum  surface.
>
> If the rollers were replaced with smooth rollers the  tool could be used
> to compress the swaged end of the element.   Carefully done the entire
> swaged end could be smoothly compressed to  fit snugly on the inner
> section. This would have to be done carefully  and only a few thousandths
> at a time, but should work.  OTOH it's  going to a lot of work for a
> little gain. Me? I'd think it's worth it,  but it's certainly not worth
> the expense of going out and purchasing a  lathe and the tools to go with
> it.  <:-))
>
>
>>
>> Plus: as I noted here before,  the clamps Hygain ships are no good.  
They 
>> are cheapest of  the cheap and will strip easily.
>> I will bet two cents there is no  recognizable manufacturer name on the 
>> clamps.  (look)
>>
>> So: you want better clamps, so you can get more  torque without 
stripping. 
>> And you might want to double clamp  just
>> because the swaging is bad.
>>
>> Maybe  someone can comment about whether they've riveted the slit Hygain 
>>  swaged ends. I would think it wouldn't work as
>> well as normal  telescoping tubing.
> I've had good luck with the Hy-gain joints and  connectors, but the last
> ones I used were nearly 5 years ago.   The looked a bit "tent like" made
> of SS strip, with a screw in the  center.  I've never stripped one of
> those but I sure have  stripped a bunch of the SS hose clamps.  I don't
> know what they  use now that they've been "bought out".
>>
>
>  73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>> -kevin
>> AD6Z
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