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Re: [TowerTalk] H frame for 10 or 15m

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] H frame for 10 or 15m
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <lists@subich.com>
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 10:34:07 -0400
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
On 8/16/2011 9:54 AM, Jay Kesterson K0GU wrote:
 > Just take into account that VE7BQH's fine antenna array information
 > is a maximum gain design for EME. The first side lobes in the azimuth
 > are only down around 12 db from the main lobe in many of those
 > calculations. If you can live with -12 db first side lobes then the
 > spacing is fine.

VE7BQH's information also uses free space designs since EME generally
involves elevation above the horizon.  Some can argue that HF use is
better served by a more narrow but taller array which would create
a broader main lobe and addition lobes in the vertical plane (more
choices of take off angle) while others will argue for an H-frame
that is exactly 1/2 wave high since it minimizes the up/down lobes
and results in a "cleaner" pattern (fewer vertical lobes).

73,

    ... Joe, W4TV



On 8/16/2011 9:54 AM, Jay Kesterson K0GU wrote:
> On 8/16/2011 7:17 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>    >   3 dB seems like an awfully small advantage from the mechanical
>>    >   complexity and wind load associated with an H-frame.
>>
>> The advantage of an H-Frame ranges from somewhat less than 5 dB for
>> systems with less than optimum spacing to slightly more than 6 dB
>> with maximum gain spacing.  Without doing the modeling, one can
>> look at the material by VE7BQH (http://www.vhfdx.info/VE7BQH6.html)
>> for six meter antennas.  The spacing information for the 5 element
>> antennas with 0.75 and 0.76 wavelength booms provide a good range
>> for 10 meter antennas like the 105CA (scale the table values by
>> 1.75) and the information for the ~0.6 wavelength booms would be a
>> good starting range for 4 element yagis.
>
>     Just take into account that VE7BQH's fine antenna array information
> is a maximum gain design for EME. The first side lobes in the azimuth
> are only down around 12 db from the main lobe in many of those
> calculations. If you can live with -12 db first side lobes then the
> spacing is fine. If not the horizontal spacing needs to be reduced a bit.
>
>     BTW I made one error in my chart. I show the first side lobes on the
> horizontal stack at 36 feet wide to be 16 db down from the main lobe. It
> actually is ~13 db down.
>
>     Two 105CAs stacked horizontally spaced
>
> 36 feet =  11.11dbd (first side lobes are ~16 db down)<<<   Should be ~13 db 
> down
>
> 73,  Jay  K0GU
>
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