Suggest you check...
Wikipedia for WGS84 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System
Wikipedia for NAD83 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Datum
Coordinate Converter
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/toolbox/geography/geoutm.html
Also Geodetic Datums
http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/datum/datum.html
And National Geospatial Intelligence Agency (NGA) (check GOOGLE for those you
might be able to access)
WGS84 is compatible with GPS Satellites, but there are many models of the
earth...
both global and local that are used for navigation coordinates and conversions
are often necessary
Terry / W1TR
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-request@contesting.com [mailto:towertalk-request@contesting.com]
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 3:27 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 104, Issue 57
Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
towertalk@contesting.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. tower lighting (Cal Zethmayr)
2. Re: tower lighting (n8de@thepoint.net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 14:13:05 -0500
From: Cal Zethmayr <w4gmh@cox.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] tower lighting
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Cc: towertalk-request@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20110827151305.WK33P.1536575.imail@eastrmwml46>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
In the USA a tower must be 200 feet or taller to require lighting or meet
guidlines for painting or the types of lighting.
I wonder what the regs are in other countries?
Cal Zethmayr
W4GMH
---- towertalk-request@contesting.com wrote:
=============
Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. tower lights (Spencer)
2. Re: tower lights (K8RI on TT)
3. Re: Terrain data for HFTA (David J. Sourdis - HK1A)
4. FS: Glen Martin M-1850A 50' aluminum tower with Hazer
(Paul Playford)
5. Re: Terrain data for HFTA (TexasRF@aol.com)
6. Re: tower lights (Williams, Richard (OAG/CPG))
7. rotating towers, et al (don daso)
8. Re: Rotating tower (TexasRF@aol.com)
9. Rotors for sale (K1TTT)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 14:08:10 -0600
From: Spencer <k5gak@powerc.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] tower lights
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <4E4EC2AA.4020504@powerc.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
aware!
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:47:41 -0400
From: K8RI on TT <k8ri-on-towertalk@tm.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower lights
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <4E4ECBED.7090900@tm.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 8/19/2011 4:08 PM, Spencer wrote:
> there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
> aware!
And thank goodness for them, but the ham tower that requires lights is
rare. I wish they'd go to shields/reflectors that prevent the light from
going up around here, but they don't even have to be shielded. When we
moved here 27 years ago it was quite dark. Then it seems every one was
installing those mercury vapor lights. Of course the places with nothing
to steal put them on all sides of a tall, white house. People don't
realize that shielded, directed lights are far more effective than very
bright, unshielded lamps.
I've thought of running Christmas lights up the guys, but as I'm on the
centerline for the local GPS-06 I think I'll pass on that one.<:-))
73
Roger (K8RI)
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 22:47:54 -0500
From: "David J. Sourdis - HK1A" <hk1kxa@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <COL115-W143B46547717CB2E6197088F2D0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I would not trust Google-Earth elevation data.To add an example like Bimini,
Bahamas: Check Malpelo Island, HK0TU, 400 km away from the colombian Pacific
coast (4.0 N, 81.6 W) According to Google earth the island is submerged under
the water surface a least 340 ft. In reality, this island has elevations over
1000 ft ASL.
David
HK1A
EC5KXA
AE5XQ
> From: n6bv@arrl.net
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:29:16 -0700
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
>
> Charlie:
>
> You said recently:
>
> > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:12:45 -0500
> > From: Charlie Carroll <k1xx@cfl.rr.com>
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grabbing terrain data for HFTA
> > To: Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net>, towertalk@contesting.com
> > Message-ID: <wg1l6uo0lqvcmp2rougptbc7.1313543269277@email.android.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > Door's abt to close, so have to be brief. Of late, I have taken
> > to semi-automatically extracting terrain data from Google Earth.
> > I dump this info into an Excel spreadsheet for the number
> > crunching. Pretty painless to do something like ten foot
> > intervals out to 10k feet.
> >
> > 73 charlie, k1xx
>
> N6BV: I'm not sure where Google Earth gets their terrain data, but I am
> suspicious that it is derived at least partially from the SRTM (Shuttle
> Radar Topography Mission) data set. I get nervous when I look at the terrain
> data for islands surrounded by seawater -- which should, by definition, be
> at or at least very close to sea level. It is often shown as being
> considerably different from sealevel.
>
> N6BV: For example, in Google Earth zoom into Baileytown, Bimini, Bahamas.
> Just to the west of Baileytown the altitude goes considerably negative.
> Either this is a depthsounder reading (which I doubt) or else something is
> goofy!
>
> N6BV: I'm curious how you are extracting that data from Google Earth
> semi-automatically, even if I'm nervous about the data itself.
>
> >
> > Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Can some one share a pointer for up to date instructions for grabbing
> > >the terrain data from the web for HFTA? Every instruction I've found is
> > >hopelessly out of sync with the current terrain data web site.
> > >
> >
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 21:31:15 -0700
From: "Paul Playford" <paul@w8aef.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] FS: Glen Martin M-1850A 50' aluminum tower with
Hazer
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <0853678FAFB74C67BE028C30C2846CC1@Desktop>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Rated at 16 sq. ft. in an 87 mph wind.
Requires 3 ea 1" dia x 36" threaded rods with nuts and guy anchors.
Asking $750, on the ground in Phoenix, AZ. Delivery negotiable.
de Paul, W8AEF
ZF2JI/ZF2TA FO8DX/FO8PLA 8Q7AA XZ0A VU7RG/VU3PYM TX5C
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 07:53:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: TexasRF@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
To: hk1kxa@hotmail.com, towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <41922.2703ce7a.3b80fa20@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Sounds like someone's earth bulge corrections are amiss! This is the name
used due to the earth shape being slightly ellipsoid instead of a perfect
sphere. The earth diameter is slightly greater at the equator than higher
or lower latitudes.
If this is the case, then it seems that the elevation of all locations
near the HK area would be in error.
We have to account for earth bulge in our EME az/el calculations so it is
a real effect; not just imagined.
73,
Gerald K5GW
In a message dated 8/19/2011 10:48:12 P.M. Central Standard Time,
hk1kxa@hotmail.com writes:
I would not trust Google-Earth elevation data.To add an example like
Bimini, Bahamas: Check Malpelo Island, HK0TU, 400 km away from the colombian
Pacific coast (4.0 N, 81.6 W) According to Google earth the island is
submerged under the water surface a least 340 ft. In reality, this island has
elevations over 1000 ft ASL.
David
HK1A
EC5KXA
AE5XQ
> From: n6bv@arrl.net
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:29:16 -0700
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
>
> Charlie:
>
> You said recently:
>
> > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:12:45 -0500
> > From: Charlie Carroll <k1xx@cfl.rr.com>
> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grabbing terrain data for HFTA
> > To: Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net>, towertalk@contesting.com
> > Message-ID: <wg1l6uo0lqvcmp2rougptbc7.1313543269277@email.android.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > Door's abt to close, so have to be brief. Of late, I have taken
> > to semi-automatically extracting terrain data from Google Earth.
> > I dump this info into an Excel spreadsheet for the number
> > crunching. Pretty painless to do something like ten foot
> > intervals out to 10k feet.
> >
> > 73 charlie, k1xx
>
> N6BV: I'm not sure where Google Earth gets their terrain data, but I am
> suspicious that it is derived at least partially from the SRTM (Shuttle
> Radar Topography Mission) data set. I get nervous when I look at the
terrain
> data for islands surrounded by seawater -- which should, by definition,
be
> at or at least very close to sea level. It is often shown as being
> considerably different from sealevel.
>
> N6BV: For example, in Google Earth zoom into Baileytown, Bimini, Bahamas.
> Just to the west of Baileytown the altitude goes considerably negative.
> Either this is a depthsounder reading (which I doubt) or else something
is
> goofy!
>
> N6BV: I'm curious how you are extracting that data from Google Earth
> semi-automatically, even if I'm nervous about the data itself.
>
> >
> > Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Can some one share a pointer for up to date instructions for grabbing
> > >the terrain data from the web for HFTA? Every instruction I've found
is
> > >hopelessly out of sync with the current terrain data web site.
> > >
> >
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:56:07 -0300
From: "Williams, Richard (OAG/CPG)" <Richard.Williams@gnb.ca>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower lights
To: Spencer <k5gak@powerc.net>, "towertalk@contesting.com"
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <33D89F00C2617444912B0ACB8729C9F2706729AE8D@GNBEX1.gnb.ca>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I called the Canadian equivalent of the FAA once about whether I would need
lights on an 88 foot Trylon self-supporting tower. The guy answered that if a
plane was flying at 88 feet, whether my tower had a light or not wouldn't make
much difference.
Rick VE9HF
________________________________________
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com [towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On
Behalf Of Spencer [k5gak@powerc.net]
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 5:08 PM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] tower lights
there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
aware!
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 20:29:25 -0400
From: don daso <k4za@juno.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] rotating towers, et al
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20110819.172957.950.930663@mailpop06.vgs.untd.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
There's obviously some confusion rampant here...W9GE's tower installation
using K0XG hardware rotates, I believe K1TTT's tower uses the K0XG
orbital ring rotator, which is
a simple "apples & oranges" comparison.
The GH controller can certainly ramp up rotators, such as Bob's Orion.
The XG orbital ring is simply turned on/off by the pwr supply relays, &
doesn't ramp up/down.
But, it would be helpful if it did, in fact, especially on the bigger
antennas, like OWAs...
73 Don K4ZA
Tower Works
Charlotte NC
Antenna Towers for Radio Amateurs
published by ARRL
www.k4za.com
____________________________________________________________
Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e4f003958ea277a0a1st02vuc
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:13:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: TexasRF@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rotating tower
To: k6xt@arrl.net, n4zr@contesting.com
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <41e03.7f8d1193.3b80fef5@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Art, re: 204BA: wonder if they can be reconfigured as a 4-el OWA design?
Love that bandwidth!
On the 3-el 40 tip size: keep in mind that as the taper continues, the
element length has to increased due to the taper effect. The yagi design
programs will show this.
73,
Gerald K5GW
In a message dated 8/19/2011 8:47:48 A.M. Central Standard Time,
k6xt@arrl.net writes:
Pete
Someone else replied about K4JA's loss saying it was a hurricane. Our
winds don't get up there or haven't yet.
An elephant gun to Asia would be good. I'm trying to avoid a mast and
associated hardware in the tower. Another piece of R45 above the top
guys, at 75 lb, seems as light as anything else I could put up there.
The small 20 above the 40 gives me the opportunity for 3 phased 20's.
Someone suggested a 204BA, I have some of those elements but would
probably make it a 3L.
My 3L40 is an old DXE. From the factory it came with (what I consider)
huge tips. Starts out at 2 inch, ends in telescoping tubing at 0.875in.
To me that is gross overkill at the tips. I replaced the outer 16 feet
with 204BA elements to cut the weight but more important the wind load.
My neighbor K0YW has a duplicate of this ant. His element sag is
something like 3X mine. This ant is up on a hilltop 70 ft crankup
cranked down to about 50 ft for the past year with no probs so far.
Gotta wonder if K4JA's pair of 40's started twisting in opposite
directions. AB105 is stout stuff, I had some up 30 yrs ago in San Diego
area.
73 Art K6XT
Allison, Colorado
"One of the harshest lessons learned from recent disasters, especially
Katrina, is that you are your own first responder."
...LtGen Russel Honore USA
GMCC CWOps 728
NAQCC 1342 SDDXC
ARRL TA
On 2011-08-19 05:54, Pete Smith wrote:
> You're right to be concerned about twisting loads. K4JA, who is a
> pretty good back-yard engineer, lost a 200-foot AB-105 rotating tower
> with 2 40m OWAs on it in a windstorm, and from the debris it was
> obvious that it had twisted to failure. Afterward, he told me he sure
> wished he had a shear pin or other provision for breaking the
> connection between his rotator and the tower, because if it had been
> free to move it might well have survived.
>
> By the way, if you plan to phase the two 3L 20m yagis, wouldn't you be
> better off putting the top one at 100 feet? Or are you looking for an
> elephant gun to Asia?
>
> 73, Pete N4ZR
>
> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
> www.conteststations.com
> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>
>
>
> On 8/18/2011 8:51 PM, Art K6XT wrote:
>> I've started construction of a 150 ft Rohn 45 rotating tower using K0XG
>> base and four rings, top ring at 140 ft. Just above the top ring will be
>> a 3L40 and possibly a small 20 above that, like 3L.
>>
>> I'd be very interested in any experience or anecdotes on projects like
>> this using R45. That tower was selected because I already own it. My
>> area has the potential for icing. The ice I've seen is very light,
>> nothing like back east or in EU. But I suppose its possible. Not too
>> windy, the strongest seem to peak out around 70mph and that's rare.
>>
>> One issue I see is, there are no torque bars on the tower. All its
>> torque is transmitted to the rotator on the ground. K0XG's rings do have
>> torque bars but that doesn't help the tower.
>>
>> The general plot is to add antennas down the tower above the guy rings.
>> Second 3L20, a shorty 40 Hygain, 10 and 15M.
>>
>> Replies to k6xt at arrl dot net are FB, or here.
>>
>
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 14:16:34 +0000
From: "K1TTT" <K1TTT@ARRL.NET>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Rotors for sale
To: "reflector -tower" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Cc: Nobarc <nobarc@nobarc.org>
Message-ID: <EF30E8164B614FC7BE6F5B6352DC6E1E@k1tttibm>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
A relatively recent production TIC 1122 that has some mechanical damage.
There are some teeth broken in the big ring, and welds broken on the boom
cradle outriggers (http://www.k1ttt.net/images/2011_k0xg_ring_11_Small.jpg
picture while still on the tower). More pictures can be provided if
interested. Comes with 2 motors, boom truss assembly, and a TIC controller.
A 25 year old TIC 1032 ring. Rusty but otherwise was working except for a
bent shaft on the drive motor. Comes with 1 motor, boom truss assembly, and
a TIC controller. (http://www.k1ttt.net/images/32in_tic_ring_1_Small.jpg)
$100ea, pickup in Peru, Ma.
I would hate to try to ship these, boxing and shipping would probably cost
more than I want for them... But if you were really sure you wanted them I
might.
Will take them to the NoBARC(http://www.nobarc.org/) flea market next week
only if someone is really interested.
David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto:k1ttt@arrl.net
web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 104, Issue 36
******************************************
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 15:26:52 -0400
From: n8de@thepoint.net
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower lighting
To: Cal Zethmayr <w4gmh@cox.net>
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com, towertalk-request@contesting.com
Message-ID: <20110827152652.bipv73vzvcc88g48@webmail.win.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
format="flowed"
To be precise. ... in USA, any tower OVER 199 feet tall needs lighting.
SOME towers lower in height ALSO need lighting, depending on distance
from airport and 'glideslope'.
73
Don
N8DE
Quoting Cal Zethmayr <w4gmh@cox.net>:
> In the USA a tower must be 200 feet or taller to require lighting or
> meet guidlines for painting or the types of lighting.
> I wonder what the regs are in other countries?
>
> Cal Zethmayr
> W4GMH
>
>
>
>
> ---- towertalk-request@contesting.com wrote:
>
> =============
> Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
> towertalk@contesting.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> towertalk-request@contesting.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> towertalk-owner@contesting.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. tower lights (Spencer)
> 2. Re: tower lights (K8RI on TT)
> 3. Re: Terrain data for HFTA (David J. Sourdis - HK1A)
> 4. FS: Glen Martin M-1850A 50' aluminum tower with Hazer
> (Paul Playford)
> 5. Re: Terrain data for HFTA (TexasRF@aol.com)
> 6. Re: tower lights (Williams, Richard (OAG/CPG))
> 7. rotating towers, et al (don daso)
> 8. Re: Rotating tower (TexasRF@aol.com)
> 9. Rotors for sale (K1TTT)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 14:08:10 -0600
> From: Spencer <k5gak@powerc.net>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] tower lights
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <4E4EC2AA.4020504@powerc.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
> aware!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 16:47:41 -0400
> From: K8RI on TT <k8ri-on-towertalk@tm.net>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower lights
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <4E4ECBED.7090900@tm.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 8/19/2011 4:08 PM, Spencer wrote:
>> there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
>> aware!
>
> And thank goodness for them, but the ham tower that requires lights is
> rare. I wish they'd go to shields/reflectors that prevent the light from
> going up around here, but they don't even have to be shielded. When we
> moved here 27 years ago it was quite dark. Then it seems every one was
> installing those mercury vapor lights. Of course the places with nothing
> to steal put them on all sides of a tall, white house. People don't
> realize that shielded, directed lights are far more effective than very
> bright, unshielded lamps.
>
> I've thought of running Christmas lights up the guys, but as I'm on the
> centerline for the local GPS-06 I think I'll pass on that one.<:-))
>
> 73
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 22:47:54 -0500
> From: "David J. Sourdis - HK1A" <hk1kxa@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
> To: "towertalk@contesting.com" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <COL115-W143B46547717CB2E6197088F2D0@phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> I would not trust Google-Earth elevation data.To add an example like
> Bimini, Bahamas: Check Malpelo Island, HK0TU, 400 km away from the
> colombian Pacific coast (4.0 N, 81.6 W) According to Google earth
> the island is submerged under the water surface a least 340 ft. In
> reality, this island has elevations over 1000 ft ASL.
>
> David
> HK1A
> EC5KXA
> AE5XQ
>
>
>> From: n6bv@arrl.net
>> To: towertalk@contesting.com
>> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:29:16 -0700
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
>>
>> Charlie:
>>
>> You said recently:
>>
>> > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:12:45 -0500
>> > From: Charlie Carroll <k1xx@cfl.rr.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grabbing terrain data for HFTA
>> > To: Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net>, towertalk@contesting.com
>> > Message-ID: <wg1l6uo0lqvcmp2rougptbc7.1313543269277@email.android.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> >
>> > Door's abt to close, so have to be brief. Of late, I have taken
>> > to semi-automatically extracting terrain data from Google Earth.
>> > I dump this info into an Excel spreadsheet for the number
>> > crunching. Pretty painless to do something like ten foot
>> > intervals out to 10k feet.
>> >
>> > 73 charlie, k1xx
>>
>> N6BV: I'm not sure where Google Earth gets their terrain data, but I am
>> suspicious that it is derived at least partially from the SRTM (Shuttle
>> Radar Topography Mission) data set. I get nervous when I look at the terrain
>> data for islands surrounded by seawater -- which should, by definition, be
>> at or at least very close to sea level. It is often shown as being
>> considerably different from sealevel.
>>
>> N6BV: For example, in Google Earth zoom into Baileytown, Bimini, Bahamas.
>> Just to the west of Baileytown the altitude goes considerably negative.
>> Either this is a depthsounder reading (which I doubt) or else something is
>> goofy!
>>
>> N6BV: I'm curious how you are extracting that data from Google Earth
>> semi-automatically, even if I'm nervous about the data itself.
>>
>> >
>> > Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > >Can some one share a pointer for up to date instructions for grabbing
>> > >the terrain data from the web for HFTA? Every instruction I've found is
>> > >hopelessly out of sync with the current terrain data web site.
>> > >
>> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 21:31:15 -0700
> From: "Paul Playford" <paul@w8aef.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] FS: Glen Martin M-1850A 50' aluminum tower with
> Hazer
> To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <0853678FAFB74C67BE028C30C2846CC1@Desktop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Rated at 16 sq. ft. in an 87 mph wind.
>
> Requires 3 ea 1" dia x 36" threaded rods with nuts and guy anchors.
>
> Asking $750, on the ground in Phoenix, AZ. Delivery negotiable.
>
>
> de Paul, W8AEF
>
> ZF2JI/ZF2TA FO8DX/FO8PLA 8Q7AA XZ0A VU7RG/VU3PYM TX5C
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 07:53:04 -0400 (EDT)
> From: TexasRF@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
> To: hk1kxa@hotmail.com, towertalk@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <41922.2703ce7a.3b80fa20@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Sounds like someone's earth bulge corrections are amiss! This is the name
> used due to the earth shape being slightly ellipsoid instead of a perfect
> sphere. The earth diameter is slightly greater at the equator than higher
> or lower latitudes.
>
>
> If this is the case, then it seems that the elevation of all locations
> near the HK area would be in error.
>
> We have to account for earth bulge in our EME az/el calculations so it is
> a real effect; not just imagined.
>
>
> 73,
> Gerald K5GW
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/19/2011 10:48:12 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> hk1kxa@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
> I would not trust Google-Earth elevation data.To add an example like
> Bimini, Bahamas: Check Malpelo Island, HK0TU, 400 km away from the colombian
> Pacific coast (4.0 N, 81.6 W) According to Google earth the island is
> submerged under the water surface a least 340 ft. In reality, this
> island has
> elevations over 1000 ft ASL.
>
> David
> HK1A
> EC5KXA
> AE5XQ
>
>
>> From: n6bv@arrl.net
>> To: towertalk@contesting.com
>> Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:29:16 -0700
>> Subject: [TowerTalk] Terrain data for HFTA
>>
>> Charlie:
>>
>> You said recently:
>>
>> > Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 20:12:45 -0500
>> > From: Charlie Carroll <k1xx@cfl.rr.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] grabbing terrain data for HFTA
>> > To: Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net>, towertalk@contesting.com
>> > Message-ID: <wg1l6uo0lqvcmp2rougptbc7.1313543269277@email.android.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> >
>> > Door's abt to close, so have to be brief. Of late, I have taken
>> > to semi-automatically extracting terrain data from Google Earth.
>> > I dump this info into an Excel spreadsheet for the number
>> > crunching. Pretty painless to do something like ten foot
>> > intervals out to 10k feet.
>> >
>> > 73 charlie, k1xx
>>
>> N6BV: I'm not sure where Google Earth gets their terrain data, but I am
>> suspicious that it is derived at least partially from the SRTM (Shuttle
>> Radar Topography Mission) data set. I get nervous when I look at the
> terrain
>> data for islands surrounded by seawater -- which should, by definition,
> be
>> at or at least very close to sea level. It is often shown as being
>> considerably different from sealevel.
>>
>> N6BV: For example, in Google Earth zoom into Baileytown, Bimini, Bahamas.
>> Just to the west of Baileytown the altitude goes considerably negative.
>> Either this is a depthsounder reading (which I doubt) or else something
> is
>> goofy!
>>
>> N6BV: I'm curious how you are extracting that data from Google Earth
>> semi-automatically, even if I'm nervous about the data itself.
>>
>> >
>> > Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > >Can some one share a pointer for up to date instructions for grabbing
>> > >the terrain data from the web for HFTA? Every instruction I've found
> is
>> > >hopelessly out of sync with the current terrain data web site.
>> > >
>> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:56:07 -0300
> From: "Williams, Richard (OAG/CPG)" <Richard.Williams@gnb.ca>
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tower lights
> To: Spencer <k5gak@powerc.net>, "towertalk@contesting.com"
> <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <33D89F00C2617444912B0ACB8729C9F2706729AE8D@GNBEX1.gnb.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I called the Canadian equivalent of the FAA once about whether I
> would need lights on an 88 foot Trylon self-supporting tower. The
> guy answered that if a plane was flying at 88 feet, whether my tower
> had a light or not wouldn't make much difference.
>
> Rick VE9HF
> ________________________________________
> From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
> [towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Spencer
> [k5gak@powerc.net]
> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 5:08 PM
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: [TowerTalk] tower lights
>
> there are dark sky rules here in New Mexico, and many other places. Be
> aware!
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 20:29:25 -0400
> From: don daso <k4za@juno.com>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] rotating towers, et al
> To: towertalk@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <20110819.172957.950.930663@mailpop06.vgs.untd.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> There's obviously some confusion rampant here...W9GE's tower installation
> using K0XG hardware rotates, I believe K1TTT's tower uses the K0XG
> orbital ring rotator, which is
> a simple "apples & oranges" comparison.
>
> The GH controller can certainly ramp up rotators, such as Bob's Orion.
> The XG orbital ring is simply turned on/off by the pwr supply relays, &
> doesn't ramp up/down.
> But, it would be helpful if it did, in fact, especially on the bigger
> antennas, like OWAs...
>
> 73 Don K4ZA
>
> Tower Works
> Charlotte NC
>
> Antenna Towers for Radio Amateurs
> published by ARRL
>
> www.k4za.com
> ____________________________________________________________
> Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
> Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4e4f003958ea277a0a1st02vuc
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 08:13:41 -0400 (EDT)
> From: TexasRF@aol.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rotating tower
> To: k6xt@arrl.net, n4zr@contesting.com
> Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <41e03.7f8d1193.3b80fef5@aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Art, re: 204BA: wonder if they can be reconfigured as a 4-el OWA design?
> Love that bandwidth!
>
> On the 3-el 40 tip size: keep in mind that as the taper continues, the
> element length has to increased due to the taper effect. The yagi design
> programs will show this.
>
> 73,
> Gerald K5GW
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/19/2011 8:47:48 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> k6xt@arrl.net writes:
>
> Pete
> Someone else replied about K4JA's loss saying it was a hurricane. Our
> winds don't get up there or haven't yet.
>
> An elephant gun to Asia would be good. I'm trying to avoid a mast and
> associated hardware in the tower. Another piece of R45 above the top
> guys, at 75 lb, seems as light as anything else I could put up there.
>
> The small 20 above the 40 gives me the opportunity for 3 phased 20's.
> Someone suggested a 204BA, I have some of those elements but would
> probably make it a 3L.
>
> My 3L40 is an old DXE. From the factory it came with (what I consider)
> huge tips. Starts out at 2 inch, ends in telescoping tubing at 0.875in.
> To me that is gross overkill at the tips. I replaced the outer 16 feet
> with 204BA elements to cut the weight but more important the wind load.
> My neighbor K0YW has a duplicate of this ant. His element sag is
> something like 3X mine. This ant is up on a hilltop 70 ft crankup
> cranked down to about 50 ft for the past year with no probs so far.
>
> Gotta wonder if K4JA's pair of 40's started twisting in opposite
> directions. AB105 is stout stuff, I had some up 30 yrs ago in San Diego
> area.
>
> 73 Art K6XT
> Allison, Colorado
> "One of the harshest lessons learned from recent disasters, especially
> Katrina, is that you are your own first responder."
> ...LtGen Russel Honore USA
> GMCC CWOps 728
> NAQCC 1342 SDDXC
> ARRL TA
>
>
>
>
> On 2011-08-19 05:54, Pete Smith wrote:
>> You're right to be concerned about twisting loads. K4JA, who is a
>> pretty good back-yard engineer, lost a 200-foot AB-105 rotating tower
>> with 2 40m OWAs on it in a windstorm, and from the debris it was
>> obvious that it had twisted to failure. Afterward, he told me he sure
>> wished he had a shear pin or other provision for breaking the
>> connection between his rotator and the tower, because if it had been
>> free to move it might well have survived.
>>
>> By the way, if you plan to phase the two 3L 20m yagis, wouldn't you be
>> better off putting the top one at 100 feet? Or are you looking for an
>> elephant gun to Asia?
>>
>> 73, Pete N4ZR
>>
>> The World Contest Station Database, updated daily at
>> www.conteststations.com
>> The Reverse Beacon Network at http://reversebeacon.net, blog at
>> reversebeacon.blogspot.com,
>> spots at telnet.reversebeacon.net, port 7000
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/18/2011 8:51 PM, Art K6XT wrote:
>>> I've started construction of a 150 ft Rohn 45 rotating tower using K0XG
>>> base and four rings, top ring at 140 ft. Just above the top ring will be
>>> a 3L40 and possibly a small 20 above that, like 3L.
>>>
>>> I'd be very interested in any experience or anecdotes on projects like
>>> this using R45. That tower was selected because I already own it. My
>>> area has the potential for icing. The ice I've seen is very light,
>>> nothing like back east or in EU. But I suppose its possible. Not too
>>> windy, the strongest seem to peak out around 70mph and that's rare.
>>>
>>> One issue I see is, there are no torque bars on the tower. All its
>>> torque is transmitted to the rotator on the ground. K0XG's rings do have
>>> torque bars but that doesn't help the tower.
>>>
>>> The general plot is to add antennas down the tower above the guy rings.
>>> Second 3L20, a shorty 40 Hygain, 10 and 15M.
>>>
>>> Replies to k6xt at arrl dot net are FB, or here.
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 14:16:34 +0000
> From: "K1TTT" <K1TTT@ARRL.NET>
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Rotors for sale
> To: "reflector -tower" <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Cc: Nobarc <nobarc@nobarc.org>
> Message-ID: <EF30E8164B614FC7BE6F5B6352DC6E1E@k1tttibm>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> A relatively recent production TIC 1122 that has some mechanical damage.
> There are some teeth broken in the big ring, and welds broken on the boom
> cradle outriggers (http://www.k1ttt.net/images/2011_k0xg_ring_11_Small.jpg
> picture while still on the tower). More pictures can be provided if
> interested. Comes with 2 motors, boom truss assembly, and a TIC controller.
>
> A 25 year old TIC 1032 ring. Rusty but otherwise was working except for a
> bent shaft on the drive motor. Comes with 1 motor, boom truss assembly, and
> a TIC controller. (http://www.k1ttt.net/images/32in_tic_ring_1_Small.jpg)
>
>
> $100ea, pickup in Peru, Ma.
> I would hate to try to ship these, boxing and shipping would probably cost
> more than I want for them... But if you were really sure you wanted them I
> might.
>
> Will take them to the NoBARC(http://www.nobarc.org/) flea market next week
> only if someone is really interested.
>
> David Robbins K1TTT
> e-mail: mailto:k1ttt@arrl.net
> web: http://wiki.k1ttt.net
> AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://k1ttt.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 104, Issue 36
> ******************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
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>
------------------------------
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